1530/1531 Datasette Unit - How many made?

[16KVIC20]

Hi fellow VIC fans, does anybody know how many 1530/1531 C2N Datasette units were sold in total?

Elsewhere on the internet we're trying to work out what the biggest selling cassette deck of all time was, I have thrown the C2N into the ring. I realise that by the time the C64 turned up loads of people in the US switched to disk drive, but often the computer was bundled with the C2N anyway I'd have thought, and maybe some people started with the C2N and upgraded, maybe others had both. In the UK and Europe, the C2N was the dominant format for loading these systems. So if we take 2.5 Million VIC 20s and 17 + Million C64s, plus all the C128, PET series, and the TED machines, could we possibly imagine 10 million of these units sold? Or even 5 million? I can't imagine there is a single other Cassette deck that has sold in those numbers.

It would be kind of ironic if the biggest selling cassette deck was one that you need a computer to use, that has no loudspeaker or earphone socket, and that is basically useless for music, or even spoken word. I do have a hunch that it is the top seller though, would be nice if we could prove it.

[Noizer]

You feels like someone who isn’t grownup in that era, isn’t it?

[orion70]

I think the question is interesting, it would be fun to know how many C2Ns were sold in the whole Commodore 8 bit history. Would they turn out to be the most successful tape player ever, well, we would know that 80's boomboxes lost their war against computer nerds

I'll dig the web to find numbers and let you know - I also never grew up after all

[16KVIC20]

I think the question is interesting, it would be fun to know how many C2Ns were sold in the whole Commodore 8 bit history. Would they turn out to be the most successful tape player ever, well, we would know that 80's boomboxes lost their war against computer nerds

Which would be pretty funny! The very fact that you needed a commodore tape deck for your commodore computer, and the fact that the C64 especially sold so many units, I think that pretty much guarantees it, even though it was never intended.

I'll dig the web to find numbers and let you know

Would be great if you could, thanks Orion. Would be really nice to settle that one. I know some audio decks sold very well, but 10 million well or more, I doubt very much.

- I also never grew up after all

I wasn't sure if that was what Noizer meant. Did he mean that I'm asking because I'm too young to remember (which I'm not!); or did he mean that I haven't ever really grown up? If it's the latter, then guilty as charged!

[orion70]

Well, a first search in the sales figures for the period of production 1981-1994 gives the realistic estimate of 12.5 millions of Commodore 64s produced, as well as 2.5 millions of VIC-20s. Considering only those computers, which are strictly compatible with the C2N datas(s)ette, assuming that the very first VIC-20 models were using the PET recorder, balancing those with the Commodore 128 users who also bought a C2N, given that some users bought more than one for several reasons, and excluding later models such as the black peripherals of 264 series, we can conclude with a fair degree of certainty that this single model

reached at least a 15.000.000 figure.
Which unfortunately doesn't make it the single model best seller ever as far as tape players and recorders are concerned. In fact, the Sony Walkman reached a whooping 186 mil. - no competition here .

[16KVIC20]

Hi Orion70, thank you for the info, that was some good research.

I think 15 Million Units probably does stand a VERY good chance of making it the best selling deck ever.

That massive figure of 186 Million for the Sony Walkman that you mentioned is for every single version of it, and there were possibly hundreds of different models. For instance, the one that I have had an exceptionally long production run, but it was very expensive because it's broadcast quality, a WM D6C, they made about 2.5 million of those over about 15 years, but that 2.5 million is part of the 186 Million.

[groepaz]

In the UK and Europe, the C2N was the dominant format for loading these systems.

sometimes i really want to know who came up with this myth

[srowe]

sometimes i really want to know who came up with this myth

In the UK the 1540/1 drive cost more that the VIC-20, even when the C64 came out most titles were released as cassettes. I only got a disk drive when I blew a good portion of my university grant on one, about 3 years after getting the computer.

[16KVIC20]

In the UK and Europe, the C2N was the dominant format for loading these systems.

sometimes i really want to know who came up with this myth

What makes you think it was a myth?
I knew loads of people that had VIC 20s and C64s, hardly any had disk drives, and those that did bought them later, more into the early 90s, and thus already had a C2N.

Then there is the evidence from the shops: Nearly all software sold for the two machines in the UK was on cassette. Even ROM cartridges fell out of favour, mainly for the C64, as they limited games to 16K, it was not a good use of the system's abilities. Yes, disks were available, yes, people had disk drives, but by far the dominant format in London (a very major world city that has no shortage of money) in the 1980s was cassette.

[Mike]

What makes you think it was a myth?

Because in continental Europe, disk drives were quite common peripherals, at least in my perception (and most probably, also groepaz's).

With a VIC-20, especially without RAM expansion, there wasn't a big incentive to buy a disk drive, but people usually bought a 1541 along when they upgraded to a C64. They didn't throw away the tape drive though - on the other hand the 1541 also works with the VIC-20.

There was a plethora of disk games to buy at stores - and as 'external' backup swapped in schoolyards, ho-hum - so that's how it went over here.

The impression of tape being more common might have been fed from the ZX Spectrum, where tape was the dominant storage (and the ZX being much more popular in UK than the rest of Europe) and possibly also from the flood of those M.A.D. tape titles - which had been a good reason for me as well to keep the 1531 when I got a C128 + 1571 in 1986.

[groepaz]

Because in continental Europe, disk drives were quite common peripherals, at least in my perception (and most probably, also groepaz's).

this. Tape was strong in *some* countries only.

[16KVIC20]

None of the above takes away from the fact that often the C64 was bundled with a 1530 anyway, exactly as the VIC 20 had been.
Maybe disk drives were more popular in certain circles, and I'm sure alot of it is down to perception.

Sales figures are more relevant than rose tinted glasses. I wonder how many Commodore Disk Drives were sold in Europe and the UK during the same time period as the 1530.

[16KVIC20]

The impression of tape being more common might have been fed from the ZX Spectrum, where tape was the dominant storage (and the ZX being much more popular in UK than the rest of Europe) and possibly also from the flood of those M.A.D. tape titles - which had been a good reason for me as well to keep the 1531 when I got a C128 + 1571 in 1986.

Well that is a right can of worms right there: C64 Vs ZX Spectrum all over again. Which sold more units? Do we include Timex Sinclair in the USA? Do we include the plethora of other clones all across eastern europe, Russia, South America etc? The C64 certainly held the record for highest selling single model of a home computer until recently, but the old ZX may have beaten it in terms of the system just by virtue of its clones. The ZX was very popular in Spain, also in Eastern Europe, so to say that it was more popular in the UK than in the rest of Europe is just factually wrong. I would agree that it was more popular in the UK than in Germany, but Germany is only a part of Europe.

For the record, I generally come down on the side of Commodore, as Sinclair's offerings are inferior in almost every conceivable manner, but, when they're working, they are quite good fun despite that.

[Mike]

None of the above takes away from the fact that often the C64 was bundled with a 1530 anyway, [...]

Again, not here. As I wrote people bought a 1541 along with the C64 when they upgraded from the VIC-20. They already *had* a tape drive and any C64+1530 bundle would have stuck like lead in the shelves.

Well that is a right can of worms right there: C64 Vs ZX Spectrum all over again.

No, it's not. That "war" is over, and has been long ago.

It's rather about what's wrongly told in several social media platforms and which contradicts the knowledge of all the people that had first-hand experience in those times and still remember. No rose-tinted glasses.

[16KVIC20]

Sales figures is what settles this, not distant memories.

You can't really claim knowledge any more than I can, all you can claim is your experience. I am happy to accept that your experience in Germany may well have been different from my experience in the UK, but Germany does not equal Europe, only a small part of it.

The BBC Micro was nearly always accompanied by a disk drive.