RIP Jack Tramiel

[crock]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidthier/ ... at-age-83/

[wiskow]

Very sad.

Rest in Peace, Jack.

[ArugulaZ]

There's always a rush to lionize these individuals after they die, but is Jack Tramiel worthy of the praise? He was actually a louse, as documented in this lengthy article:

http://www.filfre.net/2012/04/computers-for-the-masses/

I loved Commodore, I really did. But Tramiel was an awful person, and I'm not sad to see him go.

[highinfidelity]

This is obviously sad news, I am sorry for Mr. Tramiel and his family. However, I also have mixed feelings about him as a man.

His history as a nazist's prisoner and then US immigrant is moving, but by many essays and articles I have read in the past I persuaded myself that that experience did not help him to develop a sense of pityfulness and respect for other human beings. As far as I understand, his companies (and Commodore in first place) were directed in a very aggressive way, with little or no respect for his managers and employees, an attitude that I radically dislike.

I would like to say that the man who brought the VIC to us was a nice fellow, but I have to admit that most probably he was not nice at all and, may I had the chance to meet him in person, I would have probably disliked him.

[crock]

His history as a nazist's prisoner and then US immigrant is moving, but by many essays and articles I have read in the past I persuaded myself that that experience did not help him to develop a sense of pityfulness and respect for other human beings. As far as I understand, his companies (and Commodore in first place) were directed in a very aggressive way, with little or no respect for his managers and employees, an attitude that I radically dislike.

Jack was a ruthless businessman who went out of his way to beat the competition by whatever means necessary. He also demanded a lot from his staff, and past successes would not excuse present screwups. Like it or not, you don't usually succeed in a competitive world by being nice. If you research some of the people who worked directly for Jack though, such as Chuck Peddle, Kit Spencer and Michael Tomczyk, they all have great respect for Jack even though they all suffered at various times in their careers at his hands. Even Chuck, who he destroyed financially by suing for the return of his stock options when he left Commodore to set up Sirius, has stated that he never regretted working for Jack. There is plenty of videos from Chuck out there in internet land talking about the early years of Commodore and working for Jack. Likewise from Bil Herd, the chief engineer and designer of the C128, 264 series and LCD.

Also, do not confuse this with his life outside of business. Unlike someone like Steve Jobs, who had little or no empathy with anyone, including his own family, Tramiel was a devout family man. Also research some of the anecdotes from Commodore employees who suffered health issues and the way they were treated.

Nevertheless, people may reach their own conclusions, irrespective of what they may or may not have read or watched. Personally, I am enormously grateful for his legacy, I built my subsequent career on the back of my early experiences with Commodore computers, and I did also work for Commodore very briefly in the mid 80's. You can rest assured that without Jack there would be no PET, no VIC and no 64 and certainly no Denial forum.

The last word I will take from Bil Herd's facebook status from yesterday evening, and I hope he will forgive me for reposting it here.

"Jack Tramiel was bigger than life to me." - Bil Herd, 9th April 2012

[MicroPet]

I want to write something pithy but for the life of me I can't think of anything. Jack was a human being and by definition a complicated beast. I think most people at the top of huge companies are probably pretty ruthless but as mentioned Jack Tramiel also highly valued his family and friendships...

Regardless of my presumptions as to his likeable or otherwise personality I still feel sad that the man who brought me the Vic is gone and that another stalwart of the genesis of home computing will never share his memories with us again.

It truly is the end of an era...

[nbla000]

It truly is the end of an era...

who can says ? btw very sad news.

[Schema]

RIP Jack. As one of the 'masses', and not the 'classes', I appreciate his insistence that home computers be affordable. It meant poor kids like me could get a VIC with their paper route money. And that led to my current career as a software engineer which I love (and pays well too).

[pitcalco]

RIP Jack Tramiel.

I know virtually nothing about his personal life or personality, but until his death, I didn't notice that anyone cared.

For those of us on this forum, he did us a tremendous benefit within the context of which we come together. He should be remembered fondly for this.

At the same time, we must remember that he was a man with strengths and weaknesses like any other. While he was alive, I did not see us talking trash about him. Why now that he is dead and unable to offend any one else?

Of course, I tend to take criticisms against successful businessmen with a grain of salt. Much of it originates from envy. Both living and dead men are subject to it. However, let us assume that his was a miserable bastard in private. It does not take away from his real accomplishments.

All sorts of great men in history had unpleasant quirks in their personality. Thomas Edison, Aristotle, Alexander the Great, John Lennon...the list could be long. Yet we praise them correctly for the positive things they left behind. May Jack Tramiel be no different.

[pitcalco]

I think most people at the top of huge companies are probably pretty ruthless but as mentioned Jack Tramiel also highly valued his family and friendships...

I won't argue with this point since I don't know about the man's personality, but I am fascinated (even disturbed) that people have such presumptions of heads of big companies. Why do you get that idea?

I am trying to think of a mainstream example where the tops of huge companies are seen. I think the TV series "Dragon's Den" is a good example. All of them are self-made multi-millionaires and they are, in my experience, very representative of their kind, i.e., extremely sympathetic people. I run the risk of getting egg on my face if it turns out that Tramiel really was a miserable jerk, but as a general rule I cannot believe that the common presumption about corporate elites comes from any real-world experience.

[pitcalco]

There's always a rush to lionize these individuals after they die, but is Jack Tramiel worthy of the praise? He was actually a louse, as documented in this lengthy article:

http://www.filfre.net/2012/04/computers-for-the-masses/

I loved Commodore, I really did. But Tramiel was an awful person, and I'm not sad to see him go.

I just read that article. Now *THAT* is the ruthless tone typical of people who do *not* rise to become heads of companies but obsess about those who do. While posturing as a champion of morality and a critic of aggressive business acumen, Jimmy Maher comes across as a totally unsympathetic character.

Now this touches upon my own presumptions about those in academia and journalism. I will leave it to you to decide if my presumptions are rooted in real-life experience or not.

[highinfidelity]

Pitcalco, you admitted to have no knowledge of Mr. Tramiel as a man until five minutes ago. Then why are you now, even quoting their sentences, arguing against people who have known him since decades and have studied his life, read many interviews, digged through his technical and business strategies in deep?

We DID know him pretty well, and, to say the least and be generous towards his death, he was a many-faced person with some positive sides but also extremely aggressive and unpityful sides.

We DO know this. YOU are the one who, admittedly, don't. Why are you sentencing, then?

[highinfidelity]

RIP Jack. As one of the 'masses', and not the 'classes', I appreciate his insistence that home computers be affordable. It meant poor kids like me could get a VIC with their paper route money. And that led to my current career as a software engineer which I love (and pays well too).

I'll second these sentiments. I also feel that most of my actual work is based on what I have learned on his computers, the only ones I could afford, back then. His promise that the VIC was going to be not only a videogame but also an educational gear was not the usual commercial slogan for the families, but true indeed.

[orion70]

From here:

Jack Tramiel was an immense influence in the consumer electronics and computing industries. A name once uttered in the same vein as Steve Jobs is today, his journey from concentration camp survivor to captain of industry is the stuff of legends. His legacy are the generations upon generations of computer scientists, engineers, and gamers who had their first exposure to high technology because of his affordable computers – ‘for the masses and not the classes.’

[pitcalco]

@highinfidelity

My contention was toward the notion that most people in business are necessarily ruthless. That may have been the case in Tramiel's case. You would know better than I would. However, the idea that most businessmen are ruthless or that it is necessary to be ruthless to be successful is just wrong.