If you could have changed one thing about the VIC...?

Mike · Post by **Mike** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 1:13 am

Jeff-20 wrote:One of the reasons I don't use memory expansion is because I can't really figure out where to place custom characters. Even with 3k expanded games, the nature of 36869 forces me to take 64 characters or 192 characters (I can't do 128).

You only need to move screen memory to 6656.

Then the screen extends from 6656 to 7161, and you get 128 re-definable characters from 7168 to 8191, as follows:

Code: Select all

10 POKE55,0:POKE56,26:CLR:REM reserve memory
20 FORT=0TO1023:POKE7168+T,PEEK(32768+T):NEXT:REM init character memory
30 POKE648,26:SYS58648:POKE36869,239:REM screen at 6656, characters at 7168

This gives you 5.5 K RAM to work with. And you can access the unaltered character set as usual by using inverse characters.

Greetings,

Michael

Post by **Jeff-20** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 11:11 am

Mike, you're my hero, man!

Post by **Jeff-20** » Wed Oct 17, 2012 10:51 pm

old thread REVIVED!

I just thought of another thing I would change about the VIC: the default character color value. Why is it white (value 1)? It should be black (value zero), so that a program can POKE to the default white screen and still be seen! I can't understand the logic of making it white if all screen locations are blank.

Nathan · Post by **Nathan** » Sat Oct 20, 2012 10:56 pm

For me it would be to add 2 more joy ports and a better BASIC but thats just me, but i like the VIC for what it is

brain · Post by **brain** » Thu Oct 25, 2012 9:34 pm

Remember, without the 22x23, there would not have been a VIC at all. CBM created the VIC chip as a standalone IC for video game machines. When it didn't sell, and with Peddle off working on his Color PET, Jack wanted to recoup the investment in those ICs. Some enterprising souls in design took up the challenge, using the ill-received VIC-Is with a chopped up PET mobo to create the VIC prototype.

So, without the 22x23 VIC-I, the ColorPET would have been the next machine from CBM. Well, or nothing. Jack wanted a low cost machine, and the Color PET would never be that. So, if not the VIC-20, he would have rallied for what would end up as the C64, but been behind in the marketplace.

I don't see how more connectors could have been placed behind the unit. Is there enough room to add another connector and still have enough plastic between them to not break off?

BASIC 4 would have required a 16kB ROM, which would have driven the cost up.

I think the memory map suggestions and the character color were doable then.

I still think, though, dealing with the IEC routines (using something like JD routines) would have removed one of the main continual gripes (and source of jests from other brands).

Jim

crock · Post by **crock** » Fri Oct 26, 2012 1:50 am

Jeff-20 wrote:I just thought of another thing I would change about the VIC: the default character color value. Why is it white (value 1)? It should be black (value zero), so that a program can POKE to the default white screen and still be seen! I can't understand the logic of making it white if all screen locations are blank.

This is something that changed several times with the 64's kernal revisions. The -01 kernal set the character colour to white when the screen was cleared (because it was cut 'n' pasted from the VIC kernal), -02 set it to the current background colour ($d021), effectively a bug fix creating the same behavior as the VIC, the final and ubiquitous -03 kernal set the character colour to the current cursor colour, a much more intuitive approach.

It would be an easy patch to the VIC kernal but would no doubt break something...

Rob

Muzz73 · Post by **Muzz73** » Sat Oct 27, 2012 3:36 am

I think the original VIC-20 with the two-pronged PSU is as close to perfect of a home computer that anyone could have devised at the time, but I'm with many of you is this... maybe an 8K+ machine and no blasted memory holes!

RJBowman · Post by **RJBowman** » Wed Oct 31, 2012 7:57 pm

I could think of a few things.

I would not drastically alter the graphics; 22 columns was what made the machine unique. A built-in raster interrupt might have encouraged more advanced graphics programming. Maybe made the color memory relocatable; and a full-byte rather than nyble color memory could have allowed a more-powerful multi-color mode.

And someone suggested that the machine shouldn't have moved graphic memory when expansion was added.

How about a parallel disk-drive interface? Not that big an issue for a 5-kb machine, but it would have been a better legacy standard for the C-64.

A built-in monitor would have encouraged me to learn machine language earlier.

buzbard · Post by **buzbard** » Wed Oct 31, 2012 10:09 pm

Jeff-20 wrote:old thread REVIVED!

I just thought of another thing I would change about the VIC: the default character color value. Why is it white (value 1)? It should be black (value zero), so that a program can POKE to the default white screen and still be seen! I can't understand the logic of making it white if all screen locations are blank.

LOL, I just read this thread after posting this: KERNAL Upgrade

rhurst · Post by **rhurst** » Thu Nov 01, 2012 11:12 am

Oh, loved the friendly VIC 20 as is. It was a good 2 years later after I got acclimated with "home computing" that I was yearning for more. So probably already stated by others, here was my (then) wish-list in order:

- include Programmer's Reference Guide, waited too many months for it to be available at the local retail outlets;

- a second joystick port, I hated it only had one;

- F1, F3, F5, F7 sucks, while the C16 layout F1, F2, F3, Help was better;

- availability of Atarisoft games sooner rather than later;

- an 8kb internal memory option for VIC, not just the external 3k memory expanders, although I did get both for BASIC use -- Quikman then would have been a lot better; and

- a real RS232 serial interface instead of the user port

RJBowman · Post by **RJBowman** » Sat Nov 03, 2012 12:41 pm

There's not much that Commodore could have done about the late arrival of the Atarisoft games.

But if they had done more to make games of that quality available in the beginning, fewer people would have written off the game's graphic capabilities. Few early VIC games really showed what the machine was capable of.

Boray · Post by **Boray** » Sat Nov 03, 2012 3:35 pm

As you brought this old thread up... Why not a POKE that alters the color of the vic-20 case. That would have made it a lot easier as you don't have to spray paint it blue. It would also prevent the case from yellowing.

fsporsche · Post by **fsporsche** » Sun Nov 04, 2012 12:30 pm

The thing i would of changed on the Vic-20 would of been to have 32kb of ram...

Pedro Lambrini · Post by **Pedro Lambrini** » Sun Nov 04, 2012 1:29 pm

The only thing I would've changed would be a more robust paddle control system so that the chip didn't become flaky in years to come. I don't know what kind of foresight that would've involved but that's the only thing that frustrates me about the machine.

I love paddles and it's so bloody annoying that I can no longer use them on any of my Vic's without random jitter.

If I could change a Commodore business decision it would be to have not let the C64 kill off the Vic prematurely. As soon as that machine was slightly affordable all the dastardly traitors out there dropped the Vic like a hot potato! The poor Vic has struggled to keep any kind of profile ever since...

EDIT: The trade I would make would be to give up the user port. How many people actually use(d) it?

RJBowman · Post by **RJBowman** » Sun Nov 04, 2012 8:32 pm

I remember, circa '84, when someone that I knew bought an IBM compatible that came with a built-in modem. A million VIC-20's with built-in modems would have created a boom in dial-up services. Of course that was back before single-chip modems, so it would have been expensive.