The Future

English Invader · Post by **English Invader** » Thu May 07, 2009 5:06 pm

This is probably just naive idealism, but please indulge me.

If it's possible to build a new cartridge for the VIC, would it be possible to build a 1530 datasette or a 1540/1541 disk drive? Maybe even the VIC-20 itself? Certainly, it must be possible to build individual parts for the VIC and its peripherals.

shem · Post by **shem** » Thu May 07, 2009 5:13 pm

some of these projects have already been done
look here
http://www.fpgaarcade.com/vic20_main.htm

gklinger · Post by **gklinger** » Thu May 07, 2009 7:42 pm

Using an FPGA is building it in software (so to speak) but I think the OP was thinking of recreating the hardware and the answer is yes, sort of. Reproducing the boards isn't all that difficult but sourcing the chips, some of which are no longer made, could prove difficult. It's certainly doable though.

PaulQ · Post by **PaulQ** » Fri May 08, 2009 12:18 am

The future of all 8-bit computers will be through better emulation.

carlsson · Post by **carlsson** » Fri May 08, 2009 2:42 am

Why would you like to manufacture new floppy drives and tape recorders? In particular tape recorders are thirteen a dozen at some places. I have like four or five spare 1530's right now. Give me a year, and I'm likely to double that figure without much trouble. Sure, those are all old and used, but as long as they still work there is not much to complain about.

ral-clan · Post by **ral-clan** » Fri May 08, 2009 5:19 am

Once matter replicators are invented you'll be able to re-create anything!

That'll really pull the rug out from under eBay!

English Invader · Post by **English Invader** » Fri May 08, 2009 5:19 am

I wasn't complaining. I was just thinking about the long-term future; VIC hardware isn't getting any younger (some of the stuff was made before I was even born - and I'm 27). Whenever I turn on my VIC, I'm always sweating over wear-and-tear. This is mainly out of ignorance, but I'm working on it.

Since you mentioned the datasette, I just bidded for another one on e-bay. It's broken (the play button is jammed), but I'm kind of intrigued by the challenge.

carlsson · Post by **carlsson** » Fri May 08, 2009 6:08 am

It must be a h*ll of a datassette if its broken but you're still bidding.

English Invader · Post by **English Invader** » Fri May 08, 2009 11:13 am

Well, that's why I'm buying it. I figured the best way to learn how a datasette operates is by buying a broken one and dissecting it. That way, if and when my own datasette is in need of repair, I'll have some idea of what to do.

pitcalco · Post by **pitcalco** » Fri May 08, 2009 1:36 pm

English Invader wrote:Well, that's why I'm buying it. I figured the best way to learn how a datasette operates is by buying a broken one and dissecting it. That way, if and when my own datasette is in need of repair, I'll have some idea of what to do.

My goodness. I could have just given you one for the price of the postage.
It is broken, i.e. the play button doesn't stay down but if you have the patience to hold it down it will work in every other respect.

If you lose this bid then send me a PM and we can work someting out.

channelmaniac · Post by **channelmaniac** » Fri May 08, 2009 2:22 pm

English Invader wrote:Well, that's why I'm buying it. I figured the best way to learn how a datasette operates is by buying a broken one and dissecting it. That way, if and when my own datasette is in need of repair, I'll have some idea of what to do.

It's a cassette player. That's it.

Push play, the belt takes the motion of the motor to the gears to turn the tape. The PC board takes the signal read from the head and amplifies it to proper level to drive the circuitry on the VIC.

Press record and you engage a circuit that reduces the signal levels down from the computer, energizes the erase head, and the write head to put the data to the tape.

They are quite simple machines. A cheapo tape recorder from your local thrift store is 95% the same.

English Invader · Post by **English Invader** » Fri May 08, 2009 2:58 pm

I've always been a bit of a dumbass when it comes to mechanics so I thought it best to start from first principles.

Boray · Post by **Boray** » Fri May 08, 2009 3:23 pm

Why not look at a working one inside?

English Invader · Post by **English Invader** » Fri May 08, 2009 4:32 pm

I haven't got the heart to dissect a working datasette.

ral-clan · Post by **ral-clan** » Sat May 09, 2009 6:08 am

channelmaniac wrote:It's a cassette player. That's it.

Push play, the belt takes the motion of the motor to the gears to turn the tape. The PC board takes the signal read from the head and amplifies it to proper level to drive the circuitry on the VIC.

Press record and you engage a circuit that reduces the signal levels down from the computer, energizes the erase head, and the write head to put the data to the tape.

They are quite simple machines. A cheapo tape recorder from your local thrift store is 95% the same.

Actually, it's quite a bit more than that. While other computers had cassette decks that were just normal cassette player/recorders, the VIC-20 Datasette has some unique analogue to digital converters (and vice versa) and filtering circuitry in there. So what is sent to and from the datasette is not an amplified analogue signal, it's a true digital signal (like with a disk drive or printer).

I think that's why Commodore datasettes are so much more reliable than those from other systems. I always got great performance from my datasette (while computer cassette decks seem to have a bad rap among Atari & TRS-80 ownders).

That said, I can't imagine too much going wrong with a datasette. Head misalignment, a broken drive belt, a shorted connection cable....things that are not too hard to fix.