I agree with Carlsson. The Games section should be left for comments on finished, ready-to-use games.
Also, I would get rid once and for all of the Off Topic section, and add some sub-sections.
IMHO, this is the best general scheme:
- General Topics
-- New Software
-- New Hardware
-- Events
I've considered this. I think you both have great ideas, but too often I feel like forums are designed with a programmer's aesthetic. Efficient but not always conducive to the social component of a forum.
Off topics can be looked at in several ways. If you are not interested in topics outside of the VIC, it could be a dumping ground for wayward discussions. I personally enjoy trivial conversations about the weather in other parts of the world or hobbies outside of the VIC. It expands my knowledge of the community and, at best, leads me to other interesting ideas somehow relevant to one interested in a VIC 20.
We all have one thing in common, and it would suggest we may have more. Space exploration, Boray's music, our new tvs/phones/gadgets, even soccer all build a great sense of community for me. I think it should remain available for those who want it, even it becomes a dumping ground for bickering. Arguments would still occur with or without it.
I designed the board for simplicity. I recognize it's flaws, but I want to explain my thinking. The suggested subsections of "new software" and "new topics" may be a good idea. I had always worried it would be redundant. New hardware, I imagined, would be discussed in the Hardware section and posted to a single thread when released. New software, likewise, discussed in programming and posted to a sticky. What would be the use of a subsection? How would new hardware differ from Hardware, and what would be discussed there? I also think development and programming are the same.
The simple layout was designed to make for less clicking. With a more crowded board like Lemon 64 or Digital Press, subsections would be necessary. However, in comparison, I would never read all new posts in either section. Usually a whole first page could be full of new posts even for a daily visitor. At Denial, where I am a daily visitor, I rarely encounter more than three of four new posts in any section. So, I feel like it is easy to navigate.
I feel an Events thread may be more appropriate than a section. I notive most event posts here are only mildly related to the VIC and have very little discussion. I would prefer to crunch all events post to a single thread. I bet most of you are getting redundant news as most of the events are centered around the VIC and likely available at 64 centered forums first.
Even Lemon's Help and Support sections are likely unneeded here. Questions are usually harware or programming based and fit neatly into the respective sections. My point is, fewer categories may not be a bad thing. For example, Buy Sell and Trade had maybe 10 posts each month. Not enough to segregate auctions from private sales. Otherwise, we could have subsections for VIC items and non VIC items, and each section would only have a handful of posts each month.
I remember frequently visiting a Sega Genesis forum that appeared as a ghost town because it had like 30 sections and the most recent posts in some were 9 to 12 months old! Denial appears more lively because we actually use all of it. The international section is a little slow, but it could serve as an example of a less demanding section. I feel like unused sections tend to stay unused.
I am very open to discussion on this matter. Let me know if there are flaws in my rationale.
I'm not saying that the current layout is wrong- maybe it's the best fitted to reach every argument with few clicks. But we were talking about changing it, so why not create sub-sections? Besides, reading e.g. the complete list of "news and events" as separate thread titles instead of several posts inside a single thread would help finding the ones we're interested into, and ignore the rest. The same for new software, new hardware, and so on. Yes, more clicks, but also a good list of things instead of their verbose explanation.
As for Off-topic, I already tend to ignore this section. It should be noted that almost all the flame wars, and verbal animosity, came out from this section.
Last edited by orion70 on Thu Apr 09, 2009 8:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
Actually, all the flame wars were splitted down to the off-topic forum to keep the other threads relatively clean. After a while all participants realized if they should keep flaming eachother at all, they were supposed to keep it in off-topic for the moment being.
I do understand Jeff's motivations to keep the forum structure open - some may even say ambigious - but I really think keeping development talk separate from general discussions would be an improvement. For example, the Mega-Cart hardware thread could also have lived in Development & Projects instead of a thread among all other hardware questions.
I like the forum structure, very compact and effective. Subcategories would create too much redundancy and dispersion. Sometimes when I write a new post I have to stop and think which category fits best ("is it games? or programming?"); having subcategories would be a nightmare.
What I would like to have changed is the pixelated forum logo gif
Jeff, there were two phrases you used that hit home to me:
... forums are designed with a programmer's aesthetic.
Yes, far too often. Despite that programmers are people, too.
... forum that appeared as a ghost town
Yes, and given that VIC is over 25-years old, I like that each section here is broad enough to keep each of them at least looking alive... even if it's just a few threads that span months (or years), that's okay by me. I rather have that than more sections / sub-sections.
The font for the word denial was from the original denial newsletter. After a decade or more, I just got used to it and it became its own brand. The word itself was both a play on my surname and my refusal to accept the concept of obsolesence. Even the return home under the logo was at first a link back to the home page, but I liked the idea of implied nostalgia. Btw I still have a bunch of denial pins if anyone is still intersted. Search the buy and sell section for more details.
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