Increasingly Off-Topic Posts to Buy, Sell, and Trade

gklinger · Post by **gklinger** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 8:10 am

The Buy, Sell, and Trade subsection is defined as being a "Vic 20 Item Exchange" yet I've noticed an increasing number of posts for items that are not VIC-related in nature and some by new users who seem to be using Denial like Craigslist and not participating otherwise.

What is the official word? VIC-related items only, Commodore only, computing-related only or free for all?

ral-clan · Post by **ral-clan** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 9:51 am

While I have advertised some non-VIC related stuff in the past (although it always has been retro computing stuff) - I do agree that the buy/sell should probably be limited to VIC stuff.

For some reason I'm also bothered by people who register to the forum to only post one sell add and then never to be heard from again. I'm not sure why that is. I should probably get over that.

gklinger · Post by **gklinger** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 10:15 am

ral-clan wrote:For some reason I'm also bothered by people who register to the forum to only post one sell add and then never to be heard from again.

Me too. Pragmatically I realize that I should be glad that I was provided an opportunity to purchase the items but on some level I feel used (overly dramatic though that word may be, it fits). Strange animals.

Mike · Post by **Mike** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 11:11 am

The tag beneath the forum 'Buy, Sell, and Trade' clearly states: Vic 20 Item Exchange. I think this should clear up this question.

Michael

gklinger · Post by **gklinger** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 12:50 pm

Mike wrote:The tag beneath the forum 'Buy, Sell, and Trade' clearly states: Vic 20 Item Exchange. I think this should clear up this question.

I mentioned that in my post so obviously it does not.

I see that someone has deleted the thread I linked to in my first post but that doesn't really clarify things as this thread remains as does this one and this one and this one etc. so the question in my original post still stands as my confusion remains.

ral-clan · Post by **ral-clan** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 1:15 pm

It is a difficult question because if I have a non-VIC related items for sale, or if I am looking for a non-VIC related item, I often post in Denial first because I "trust" Denial members more as buyers & sellers - having had more interaction with them.

If I get no response or interest from Denial members, then I go to Ebay, etc.

So maybe a VIC-20 only for-sale area, and another broader for-sale area. Or maybe non-VIC-20 items can be limited to a single off-topic for-sale thread (i.e. you can start a new for-sale thread for VIC items, but non VIC items should just be appended to an existing "non-VIC-items for sale thread".

Or maybe a FOR SALE thread in the "other systems" section, to which all new for sale postings must be appended (rather than starting a new thread for each item).

Anyway, its up to Jeff in the end. This is not really a terrible problem right now, so...

gklinger · Post by **gklinger** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 1:30 pm

ral-clan wrote:Or maybe a FOR SALE thread in the "other systems" section, to which all new for sale postings must be appended (rather than starting a new thread for each item).

This would preclude things that aren't computer-specific (which may or may not be a good thing) so such a thread might find a better home in Off Topic. Then again, a thread is tricky because a posted ad could quickly get lost in existing discussion. It's a head scratcher.

carlsson · Post by **carlsson** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 1:46 pm

I think we have two issues on hand:

1) People who may come here just to trade. Up to now mostly selling, but they may also come here trying to grab cheap VIC-20 items to resell.

2) Regulars who sometimes look for or try to sell something that isn't strictly VIC-20 related.

I find (1) a much greater pain than (2). I know Jeff already gets flooded by spam bots, trying to figure out which are genuine users. Possibly the forum software could be configured so one is not allowed to start a new thread in specific subforums (i.e. Buy, Sell and Trade) unless you have posted at least 5 other messages. Now with a hopefully solid moderation team effective everywhere, we'll be able to delete spam-like messages and threads only posted to get past the limit.

I get the feeling we may need to overhaul the categories. Previously Jeff merged many small sections to larger ones to get a more compact forum. Ideally we probably should try to make that switch to newer forum software, and while doing so figure out what subsections are required. For example, Off-Topic Market which should be moderated to not turn into an eBay linkage place.

I am active on other forums where 40% of the action is about trading, 50% generally off-topic and the remaining 10% is relevant to the topic. While those forums have a relaxing feeling, you get nothing meaningful said or done. I believe we all agree that Denial should by all means avoid getting there. A few years ago this forum was more restrictive, since we completely lacked an off-topic section. The question is if we could live without those "offending" sections that are not 100% VIC-20 related?

gklinger · Post by **gklinger** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 2:11 pm

carlsson wrote:Ideally we probably should try to make that switch to newer forum software [...]

I made that suggestion to Jeff recently but I haven't heard back so I assumed he wasn't interested. It's a pity because it's inevitable that Denial will experience a calamity made possible by holes in the system. Might be a topic of a separate discussion...

Mike · Post by **Mike** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 2:26 pm

Mike wrote:The tag beneath the forum 'Buy, Sell, and Trade' clearly states: Vic 20 Item Exchange. I think this should clear up this question.

gklinger wrote:I mentioned that in my post so obviously it does not.

I see that someone has deleted the thread I linked to in my first post [...]

That was me. You pointed to a clear OT post. While I could have moved it to the Off-Topic section, its right place would be at a trading oriented section in Lemon64, or similar.

but that doesn't really clarify things as [these 3 threads] so the question in my original post still stands as my confusion remains.

Seeing even Jeff didn't quite hold to the description of this section, well, bad luck. For all the (still quite small) fuss these OT posts might create, there is another point of view not to be forgot: with the exception of some products like the upcoming Mega-Cart, most searched for/offered items have (hopefully) been traded at some time. Yet their announcements still remain here ...

gklinger · Post by **gklinger** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 2:35 pm

Mike wrote:That was me.

How come you chose to delete the first example but not the others?

Mike · Post by **Mike** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 2:46 pm

I deleted said post directly after my first reply.

It appeared to me, you then took the time searching for other examples. But you need not expect I would automatically delete these other posts, too. I'm not a dog.

As I already wrote above, I think keeping 4 year old posts asking for, or offering items is questionable as well.

gklinger · Post by **gklinger** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 3:01 pm

Mike wrote:But you need not expect I would automatically delete these other posts, too.

I neither asked for nor expected that any posts would be deleted. I did ask a straightforward question. Getting a straightforward answer, however, is proving increasingly difficult around here.

Mayhem · Post by **Mayhem** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 3:22 pm

carlsson wrote:Possibly the forum software could be configured so one is not allowed to start a new thread in specific subforums (i.e. Buy, Sell and Trade) unless you have posted at least 5 other messages.

I don't know about the phpBB software, but over at Digital Press you can't see the buy/sell and auction forums until you've been registered there for 10 days. This was enacted to stop fly-by sellers just posting stuff for sale.

gklinger · Post by **gklinger** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 3:30 pm

That does seem a prudent precaution although it would render it impossible for someone who just wants to get rid of something to make it known to those who might be interested. It would be a shame to see a VIC-20 or related materials end up in a tip because we made it more difficult for them to let us know about the stuff.

Hopefully this discussion will result in someone coming up with an idea that allows for a happy medium.