Paddle-Games in WinVice ?

Vicman *1970 · Post by **Vicman *1970** » Wed Jun 04, 2008 10:45 am

Hi,

Is it possible to play "Paddle"-Games with WinVice ? - for Example "Super Smash" (Breakball by Commodore) ?

I can't figure out, how to move my Paddle, to play those Games....

I've tried it by using the PC-keyboard and an USB-Comp. Pro- Joystick

Boray · Post by **Boray** » Wed Jun 04, 2008 12:27 pm

I think it would be very cool if they put that into VICE. The mouse pointer's x and y position in the vice window could translate to paddle a and b. After that we could make vice programs with mouse support too

Vicman *1970 · Post by **Vicman *1970** » Wed Jun 04, 2008 1:15 pm

but for now, it isn't possible to play those "Paddle-Games" in VICE, right ?

nbla000 · Post by **nbla000** » Fri Jun 06, 2008 2:47 am

Vicman *1970 wrote:but for now, it isn't possible to play those "Paddle-Games" in VICE, right ?

I've not tested it, but mayhem reports me that with Win-Vice you may use real vic paddles using a USB Stelladapter that is not sold anymore

Mayhem · Post by **Mayhem** » Fri Jun 06, 2008 4:41 am

You can use paddles iirc, I'm not sure they are emulated correctly though. I'm gonna give it another test over the weekend to see.

ral-clan · Post by **ral-clan** » Fri Jun 06, 2008 6:53 am

Slightly off-topic but a few days ago I cleaned my Commodore paddle's pots and played PONG by Nippur and nbla007. Awesome jitter-reducing routine in that game! The movement is smooth and there is no jitter, basically. In all the Commodore paddle games (i.e. Sea Wolf, Clowns) there is still a small amount of jitter even though I've cleaned the pots.

nbla000 · Post by **nbla000** » Fri Jun 06, 2008 9:43 am

ral-clan wrote:played PONG by Nippur and nbla007.

Not 007 but nbla000 unfortunately

Awesome jitter-reducing routine in that game! The movement is smooth and there is no jitter, basically.

This is a Nippur72's routines merit only.

PS: Have you used the last 2008 updated version of Pong with single player support ?

nippur72 · Post by **nippur72** » Fri Jun 06, 2008 10:22 am

talking of the anti-jitter routine, it's just few bytes of machine code that average the current paddle read with the previous one. Mathematically speaking it's a first order low-pass IIR filter, something like this:

y = y*1/3 + paddle_read*2/3

so paddle_read has 2/3 weight and previous one (y) has 1/3. By changing the weights you can tradeoff between responsiveness and anti-jitter.

In theory any paddle program could be patched to support this anti jitter system.

Vicman *1970 · Post by **Vicman *1970** » Fri Jun 06, 2008 10:24 am

thanks for your replys, maybe one Day the VICE-Team will really support the PC-Mouse

eslapion · Post by **eslapion** » Mon Jun 09, 2008 6:14 pm

nbla000 wrote:
Vicman *1970 wrote:but for now, it isn't possible to play those "Paddle-Games" in VICE, right ?
I've not tested it, but mayhem reports me that with Win-Vice you may use real vic paddles using a USB Stelladapter that is not sold anymore

The Stelladapter is presently sold out but it is not discontinued. Atari Age expects to have more of them soon.

However, it presents paddles to Windows as the X and Y axis of a joystick. For this reason and because there is no specific paddle option in VICE, paddles are not supported in x-Vic of VICE.

nbla000 · Post by **nbla000** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 5:17 am

eslapion wrote:However, it presents paddles to Windows as the X and Y axis of a joystick. For this reason and because there is no specific paddle option in VICE, paddles are not supported in x-Vic of VICE.

Though i consider VICE as the best Vic-20 emulator, i think that this is the most important VICE lack thing

Reading the Pfau Zeh documentation, it seems that the Emulator Pfau Zeh supports paddles emulations via keyboard:

* Paddle 1

Left : Numblock end (1)

Right : Numblock page down (3)

Fire : Cursor key left

* Paddle 2

Left : Numblock pos1 (7)

Right : Numblock page up ( 9)

Fire : Cursor key right

orion70 · Post by **orion70** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 5:50 am

nbla000 wrote:the Emulator Pfau Zeh supports paddles emulations via keyboard

D/L page not working. Download Pfau Zeh HERE instead.

I tried Pong with it, and it emulates paddles (!) as described in the docs, but unfortunately the emulator speed is VERY variable, making it unplayable.

nippur72 · Post by **nippur72** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 6:49 am

VICE is open source, so in theory it could be modified. The only problem is that it's a rather complex project and it's not easy to understand and add your own mod. In the past I tried to modify it for a 3x2 pixel ratio rather that 2x1, but failed miserably (but was able to get 1x1 aspect ratio).

WinVICE also forked into WinWICE plus, with slight different features (most for 64dtv).

nbla000 · Post by **nbla000** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 6:55 am

orion70 wrote: D/L page not working. Download Pfau Zeh HERE instead.

Thanks for info.

I tried Pong with it, and it emulates paddles (!) as described in the docs, but unfortunately the emulator speed is VERY variable, making it unplayable.

Yes i've tested it too and i may confirm that paddles emulation is really primitive btw you may use it to check programs with Paddle support, for example i've just tested the cart image of "Star Post" that does not work on VICE and i may confirm that the rom is good, i was sure since i've tested it on Real machine btw it is a confirm that is just a VICE paddle lacks support problem.

nippur72 wrote:VICE is open source, so in theory it could be modified. The only problem is that it's a rather complex project...

To work on an emulator project is another my dream, too much dreams....

It's really strange that nobody of the VICE developers visit our forum, someone know a VICE developer ?

gklinger · Post by **gklinger** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 9:26 am

nippur72 wrote:WinVICE also forked into WinWICE plus, with slight different features (most for 64dtv).

I understand that the people behind VICEplus are more open to adding things than the VICE developers. For instance, I think there are some improvements to the 2MHz 128 emulation being added into the next version. I suspect they would be willing to integrate the type of code eslapion was talking about.