Denial

I've been learning to build games for the VIC, and I was wondering, how common are RAM expanders nowadays? I mean, for people running emulators it's just a setting, but back in the day you had to buy a separate cartridge, right? That's what it looks like from what I've seen online. But in the 80s it looks like most games targeted the unexpanded VIC, and in 2021 I expect they're rare collectors' items. Or are they? I mean the prices are all over the map on Ebay, so I'm not so sure. What RAM expanders are still commonly in use today? In other words, as a developer who wants my games to work on original hardware, should I still primarily focus on the unexpanded VIC? Or are RAM expansion cartridges super-common and preferable? Obviously, the more the better, but realistically what's the best way to support original hardware?

There are a number of modern memory expansion cartridges (for example Final Expansion 3 and Penultimate). I haven't ever seen a poll but I would think that most users today have access at least 16K.

srowe wrote:I haven't ever seen a poll [...]

Here we go ...

Memory Expansion Rarity Poll, 2006

Memory Expansion Poll, 2008

Memory Expansion Poll, 2014

Mike wrote: ↑Sat Jan 09, 2021 4:18 am Here we go ...

OK, they all predate my arrival here. Perhaps another (with newer products included?) is due?

I have both the Final Expansion 3 and Penultimate along with my original 16k and 3k + enhanced basic carts.

I guess most, if not all, real VIC 20 users have a switchable RAM expansion nowadays. Maybe with the exception of a few purists, and some collectors who don't really use the computers they own.

No need to switch nor getting away. Simply run the unex tool, maybe

When I first got a VIC-20 one of the first things I was told was to get a 32k switching expander. Unfortunately, they were a little out of my price range at the time and I ended up (recently) getting a 16k instead. From what I've seen of modern games and software developed for the platform, much of it is geared towards the 32k end of the spectrum.

Obviously, emulation and modern RAM expanders make it much easier for developers to push the boundaries of their creations, leading to better and more detailed games. However, as a stock, and now 16k user, It would be really nice to see some new software that everybody can take advantage of.

DistantStar001 wrote:When I first got a VIC-20 one of the first things I was told was to get a 32k switching expander. Unfortunately, they were a little out of my price range at the time and I ended up (recently) getting a 16k instead. [...] [A]s a stock, and now 16k user, It would be really nice to see some new software that everybody can take advantage of.

If you have a sweet spot for round based strategic games, you should take a look at VICtoria Gold Edition.

(Don't be put off by the broken image icons - the download link in the OP is active and works)

DistantStar001 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 09, 2021 11:51 am When I first got a VIC-20 one of the first things I was told was to get a 32k switching expander. Unfortunately, they were a little out of my price range at the time and I ended up (recently) getting a 16k instead. From what I've seen of modern games and software developed for the platform, much of it is geared towards the 32k end of the spectrum.

Obviously, emulation and modern RAM expanders make it much easier for developers to push the boundaries of their creations, leading to better and more detailed games. However, as a stock, and now 16k user, It would be really nice to see some new software that everybody can take advantage of.

Well this kind of answers my question.

For one, I didn't know "modern RAM expanders" were a thing. But it makes a lot of sense considering just how popular retro gaming is becoming; heck, just the fact that TheVIC20 and all these other "classic" and "flashback" devices even exist should have been my first clue. And I'm glad to hear it, because I would definitely like to build something with decent quality that's actually fun to play. And while I'm enjoying the challenge of writing games that fit in 3.5k, it would sure be nice to have more RAM. Even an old-fashioned text adventure isn't that good if there's no room for both text and code. Up till now I've mostly built text-based games, but I'm working on a couple with graphics (both PETSCII and redefined characters). My main concern was that by now, working original cartridges must be hard to find - but it sounds like the community cooked up a workaround. So it's good to know those who have a real VIC have that option.

But having said that, part of what I love about programming for the VIC vs. the C64 is its simplicity. 4 voices, none of that complicated ADSR stuff I'm still struggling to understand, and a simple yet powerful graphics system (C64 sprites are great, don't get me wrong, but like the SID chip they do add to the learning curve). So it's cool to see there is still interest in VIC-20 games with NO expansion.

PS: Thanks to everyone else who replied! I'm definitely going to check out those polls, and appreciate all the input on the subject.

I just took an inventory, and I have

* Two 3K expanders
* Three 8K expanders, one still boxed
* One Super Expander cartridge with 3K
* One 32K "Dorktronic" expander. The nice thing about this one is that write can be turned off on the RAM, so it can be used with cartridge images with copy protection
* One 37K "Smart RAM" cartridge made by the forum's own MCes. The nice thing about this one is that it pretty much maxes out the VIC-20, including RAM at $9800

Going through mine, there’s

• 3k Superexpander

• 16k Expander

• The Penultimate Cartridge +