Denial

seriously?

In three different places the c64 port gives you the credit. In fact, there is a copyright statement with your fullname on it.

They certainly didn't just "replaced the screen routines and slapped their credits on the front" as you claim over at CSDb. Far more effort was put into this port than a simple code swap and you know it Petri.
... and the game screen itself says
(I would agree they could have put your full name on this screen)

Yes, I know they mention me in the credits but they give way more emphasis on their part which really downplays my contribution and make me feel very sad. This is my creation, the gameplay of C64 version is exactly the same (they used exactly the same code).

As you don't seem to understand why I feel bad about this, I try one more time to explain it. You simply can't take the work of others (without permission!) and slap your name on the front. That's just tasteless, highly immoral and lame.

Moreover the way they are speaking about the game on the web presents the game as it was their creation. I quote:

"Demons of Dex, done by Digital Monastery the internal game label of Hokuto Force.
All the work was done by Qzerow and Snabel." [1]

"Credits :
Code q0w of Hokuto Force
Idea The Overkiller of Hokuto Force, People of Liberty, Scene World Magazine" [2]

"we're happy you liked our game and most importantly the love and the hard work behind its creation." [3]

Players are also saying things like "I wasn't aware of the VIC-20 version this is a port of" [1]

How can the people know its my creation if they tell outrageous lies such as these? This makes me sad and furious.

A proper way to give credits (on the main screen of the game AND their communication on the web) would have been something along the lines of:

Demons of Dex
Copyright (C) 2015-2016 Petri Häkkinen

Programming and game design by Petri Häkkinen
C64 port by Digital Monastery (or Hokuto Force if you prefer)

I have worked on Dex 2 for some time [4] and have even considered turning this into a full blown game on more relevant platforms. Maybe even commercial (hey I do this kind of stuff for living). To protect my work and due to the copyright infringement being potentially harmful to my future plans for my game I have asked the admins of csdb to remove the game and its page from their site. I hope they understand common sense.

[1] http://www.lemon64.com/forum/viewtopic. ... 0c0249041f

[2] http://csdb.dk/release/?id=150286

[3] http://www.indieretronews.com/2016/09/d ... elike.html

[4] https://twitter.com/petrih3/status/718515513031266310

The Shining
A novel by Kurtz Weismann

(flips page)

Translation by Kurtzh Weismann
Original book: Stephen

How about that Mr King!

Moloch wrote:They certainly didn't just "replaced the screen routines and slapped their credits on the front" as you claim over at CSDb. Far more effort was put into this port than a simple code swap and you know it Petri.

I have to assume you are one of the admins at csdb. That's exactly what they did. If you think replacing the charset and adding the title screen with their names on it is a significant contribution so important that it gives them the rights to put their name on the front, so be it.

The guy that handled the main work of the c64 port calls himself "qow" and is quite depressed about this entire issue. This is an overview of the changes and additions made for the c64 port ...

Well, the main game-logic is ported for sure - so just fixed some bugs and optimizations, so you can find large areas of identical code-fragments.
All music (loader and ingame), sfx, gfx, fx and changes to gui, controls, highsaver/lists, options, trainer, title, outro, NTSC-adaption and stuff have been added. Comparing the release-size the original had roughly 4k, this one is unpacked 26k (or so).

This c64 port actually raised awareness of your original vic-20 version and possibly any connected release you might make in the future. That clueless guy over on Lemon forums that posted "I wasn't aware of the VIC-20 version this is a port of" was me. Since then I've discovered your Ludum Dare 29 entry "The Monastery", downloaded it, and played it for a bit and plan to return to it shortly. The same day I happened to notice you're part of Almost Human. I don't see any harm coming from a c64 port of your vic-20 game.

As for CSDb, I'm one of the staffers there, yes. The website is a database of c64 releases made by sceners and their groups. We don't delete entries in the database but the downloads can be removed for a commercial release.

I would be happy if they added "A game by Petri Häkkinen" in the titlescreen just below the title name (before their credits), to the csdb credits section and their marketing messages. Can we get that? Then I could move on without bad feelings.

Why not remove the C64 original download and add a .d64 file with both VIC20 and C64 versions and readme like the port of Carling The Spider?

I'm inclined to agree with phvic. Permission should have been obtained BEFORE any work commenced.

If you look at the CSDB database entry: http://csdb.dk/release/index.php?id=150286

At the time of writing the original authors name is not to be found anywhere on the page.

It wouldn't be so bad if they had just copied the game-play, called it a different name, and coded it entirely from scratch, but using your code without explicit permission is IMO theft, plain and simple.

I had a discussion about this with another co-founder of Almost Human. I'm now making this official statement for the record as it may be possible this may some day turn into commercial product (however unlikely):

I, Petri Häkkinen, retain all copyright and intellectual property of Demons of Dex game. This includes, but is not limited to, the name of the game, source code, game design, gameplay mechanics, background story, sound track and documentation. The C64 version of the game has been made without license and without my permission and it is a copyright infringement. This statement is necessary so that I can prove that no other parties own anything or can have any claims related to Demons of Dex or its possible commercial release in any form.

That is all. Thank you.

I, Petri Häkkinen, retain all copyright and intellectual property of Demons of Dex game. This includes, but is not limited to, the name of the game, source code, game design, gameplay mechanics, background story, sound track and documentation.

are you sure you understand the difference between copyright and trademark law? jeeeeez, so much nonsense and drama about a c64 game. you should feel honoured, and be happy they credited you *three times* even, and bothered to try to ask you at all. thats much much more than what will happen in most cracks - and a crack of your c64 game being released is inevitable, especially if it will ever turn into a commercial release.

I have no idea what you are talking about, groepaz. The statement is necessary in the unlikely but still possible case I someday release a version of Demons of Dex commercially. In that case I don't want anyone to have any claims towards me. Without this statement there is a risk that it may seem like I would have voluntarely given up rights to my work -- which I haven't.

btw. is it just me or is the c64 scene more hostile? Luckily I'm part of the friendlier vic-20 scene. Maybe it's because the c64 scene is still so young

groepaz wrote:

I, Petri Häkkinen, retain all copyright and intellectual property of Demons of Dex game. This includes, but is not limited to, the name of the game, source code, game design, gameplay mechanics, background story, sound track and documentation.

are you sure you understand the difference between copyright and trademark law? jeeeeez, so much nonsense and drama about a c64 game. you should feel honoured, and be happy they credited you *three times* even, and bothered to try to ask you at all. thats much much more than what will happen in most cracks - and a crack of your c64 game being released is inevitable, especially if it will ever turn into a commercial release.

Why is this a crack?

It is an unauthorised port of a vic-20 game to the C64.

In my experience a crack is just removing protection and adding a loader screen/trainer/music/scroller?

I have no idea what you are talking about, groepaz.

copyright does not apply to a name, or game design, or gameplay mechanics. it only applies to actual assets of the game (the code, the graphics, the sound) - everything else could only be protected by a trademark, if it all. unless you register a trademark, anyone can name his game like yours, and he can copy the game mechanics no problem. what he cant do is take your code/graphics/sound.

is it just me or is the c64 scene more hostile? Luckily I'm part of the friendlier vic-20 scene. Maybe it's because the c64 scene is still so young

is it just me or do the vic20 ppl cry about "unauthorized" all the time? maybe it's because they are mostly grumpy oldfarts? *sigh*

Why is this a crack?

i never said it is