A bunch of new cartridges uncovered for the MEGAcart

[eslapion]

The MEGAcart, now a great community project based on the original multicart effort has contributed to a good amount of cartridges being "unearthed".

Now, that, from a collector's point of view may be a very positive thing but it is also a potential nightmare for time to come.

Let me explain. Many cartridges had to be modified for full compatibility with the hardware of the megacart. Also, many NTSC only games were modded to be PAL comptible and vice versa.

But what about the original source ones?

I assume that it would be important for generations to come to have access to the original binary data, for example, of Frogman, Mobile Attack and others, that were recently recovered.

It might also be very useful to document the changes that were made to each modded games to make them compatible with the new hardware.

Does anyone share my point of view about this?

Can anybody help with that?

[nbla000]

Let me explain. Many cartridges had to be modified for full compatibility with the hardware of the megacart. Also, many NTSC only games were modded to be PAL comptible and vice versa.

But what about the original source ones?

I assume that it would be important for generations to come to have access to the original binary data, for example, of Frogman, Mobile Attack and others, that were recently recovered.

It might also be very useful to document the changes that were made to each modded games to make them compatible with the new hardware.

I've modified some NTSC carts to work both in PAL/NTSC but not to adapt them for Mega-Cart, you may use my modified roms as replacement of old rom of original cart if you may burn a 2564/2532 Eprom or use the 6502dude hacked cart and burn a 2764 eprom.
You DON'T requires the Mega-Cart to use my modified roms.

When finished i will post all my new PAL/NTSC version roms and a Log with the changes for each one.

PS: Please consider that some roms are not PAL/NTSC fixable for various reasons, first of all the free space in rom, so to fix them in Mega Cart and for PAL guys only some roms starts in RAM and fixed in RAM so no modification are done in the original NTSC rom, they are:

Motocross Racer
Topper
Spike's Peak
Spiders of Mars

Star Trek (s.o.s.) is partially modified to fix the BLK1 ram problem but not ROM fixed for PAL/NTSC so it starts in RAM for PAL guys only.




---------------------------------------------------------
Spiders of Mars

NTSC:
$B025 05 1B

PAL:
$B025 0C 26


---------------------------------------------------------
Motocross Racer:

NTSC:
$B711 86 18

PAL:
$B711 0E 25

---------------------------------------
Topper

NTSC:
$AABA A9 0C LDA #$0C
$AABC 8D 01 90 STA $9001

$B8F0 00 14 1B 32 00 FC 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 10 08


PAL:
$AABA A9 19 LDA #$19
$AABC 8D 01 90 STA $9001

$B8F0 07 21 1B 32 00 FC 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 10 08


-----------------------------------------
Star Trek (s.o.s.)

NTSC:
$A2C2 03 0E 98 1F 45 FC 81 00 FF FF 00 00 00 00 6F 0D

PAL:
$A2C2 0A 1B 98 1F 45 FC 81 00 FF FF 00 00 00 00 6F 0D


--------------------------
Spike's Peak it's a little bit much difficult, i've fixed it in RAM for PAL guys like Carlsson have done last year on this thread

[6502dude]

Here are changes I made to Basic 4.0 to make it not write to IO2 area:

Old Data------Instances-----New Data
8D 009C______ 4________8D FA1F
8D 019C_______7_______ 8D FB1F
8D 029C______14_______ 8D FC1F
8D 039C______12_______ 8D FD1F
AD 009C_______1_______AD FA1F
AD 029C_______6_______AD FC1F
2C 029C_______3_______ 2C FC1F

As far as generations to come, the sad truth is that it is unlikely that interest in this platform will exit, once our generation (the ones who had Vic-20 as first computer as a kid or young adult), passes on.

[Zeela]

I too think that there will be a significantly less interrest in the VIC (or other old computers) when our generation is gone. Perhaps a few of our children will care a little bit about our beloved machines, but they will have other stuff to make them feel nostalgic...

// M

[6502dude]

of our children will care a little bit about our beloved machines, but they will have other stuff to make them feel nostalgic...

Yes, nostalgic for things like compact discs (oops... this technology also is nearly obsolete now).

[bbell]

I too think that there will be a significantly less interrest in the VIC (or other old computers) when our generation is gone. Perhaps a few of our children will care a little bit about our beloved machines, but they will have other stuff to make them feel nostalgic...

I would like to think that our generation has a few more years left in it, so interest is not going away anytime soon.

However it is true, after we are gone the the number of people interested in our machines will dwindle. I suppose once my kids are old enough to work on the VIC in a serious manner (IE ~10 years), I could introduce them to it and perhaps they would remember it as time spent with dad, and thus still nostalgic in a way. I suppose much the way I enjoy music I heard at my grandparents when I was a kid because it reminds me of that time, music they were probably nostalgic about.

I do wonder if in my retirement in 30 years or so (when I presume I would have lots of spare time), playing with the VIC or other retro equipment would give me something to do with that time.

[carlsson]

Nothing prevents you from downloading or otherwise obtain the original ROM images, complete with write protection schemes and other stuff. If you want to archive it for the future, I would recommend a good quality CD-R or perhaps DVD-R instead of a Flash ROM based multicart. If you simply want to play these games, it shouldn't matter if they are in original binaries or patched to work on as many systems as possible.

[nbla000]

Nothing prevents you from downloading or otherwise obtain the original ROM images, complete with write protection schemes and other stuff. If you want to archive it for the future, I would recommend a good quality CD-R or perhaps DVD-R instead of a Flash ROM based multicart. If you simply want to play these games, it shouldn't matter if they are in original binaries or patched to work on as many systems as possible.

I agree.

[eslapion]

Well, I don't know up to what point this can relate to the VIC but... most WWII pilots are either dead or too old to be allowed to fly but there are still fanatics out there who build Mustang, Spitfire and even Stuka replicas just for the fun of it.

There are people who have sucessfully made VHDL functional replicas of the VIC for FPGA platforms. Some of them, in fact never actually owned a VIC-20 or were born after it was removed from the market.

Of course, archiving original code and playing on a multicart is two different things. There's not much of a point keeping an exact copy of an original game on a multicart if it fails.

My point was just that many games which were not really available at large now have been uncovered thanks to the effort for the multicart. Perhaps it would be a good idea to set aside the unmodified code and put it on, for example, Zimmer's or some other public archive for the VIC that has the objective of being as complete as possible.

CD-R or DVD-R is nice but I think its better to keep it as widely available to anyone as possible.

It is, of course, also a good idea to keep a list of what was done to make these "multicart compatible".

Hey... what can I say... I try as much as possible to make the virtual "VIC museum" opened to the public at large.

[eslapion]

Nothing prevents you from downloading or otherwise obtain the original ROM images, complete with write protection schemes and other stuff.

Truly, I wouldn't have a clue where to download some of the images found in the MEGACart at this point.

Could I suggest that, once the cart is complete, a web page be created where you can download all the modified/unmodified versions of all the software that's in it?

[6502dude]

Nothing prevents you from downloading or otherwise obtain the original ROM images, complete with write protection schemes and other stuff.

Truly, I wouldn't have a clue where to download some of the images found in the MEGACart at this point.

Could I suggest that, once the cart is complete, a web page be created where you can download all the modified/unmodified versions of all the software that's in it?

Zimmer's site has 95% (my estimate) of all of the unmodified cart images (plus ones which people have fixed in the past for various bugs).

There are a few recently uncovered images that folks have graciously sent along for the MegaCart project.

I suspect they will make their way to Zimmer's site at some point.

With respect to cartridge fixes, with NBLA000's great efforts, there have been more fixes for programming bugs and compatibility issues in the last 2 months than has occurred in the past 20 years.

One way to establish a personal archive of changes would be to buy a MegaCart and archive the images

[PaulQ]

I'm starting to think otherwise about future generations. I would think that someone in a future generation would love to explore great-great-grandfather's first computer, just as I enjoy exploring the things that existed in the life of my grandfather and his father; what few things remain.

[ral-clan]

Wow,

Hearing all that's been accomplished for the Mega-Cart project recently makes me proud to be involved (or at least a witness) to it, if even in a small way. You guys have a done a great job in preserving the history of this little platform. It's also great to see everyone working together so enthusiastically for a common goal.

[eslapion]

Zimmer's site has 95% (my estimate) of all of the unmodified cart images (plus ones which people have fixed in the past for various bugs).

There are a few recently uncovered images that folks have graciously sent along for the MegaCart project.

I suspect they will make their way to Zimmer's site at some point.

With respect to cartridge fixes, with NBLA000's great efforts, there have been more fixes for programming bugs and compatibility issues in the last 2 months than has occurred in the past 20 years.

One way to establish a personal archive of changes would be to buy a MegaCart and archive the images

The purpose of this thread is to try to get information about the 5% that are missing and have been included in the MEGACart.

It is specifically because of NBLA000's great effort that it has become necessary to keep track of the recent evolution in the situation concerning publicly available ROM images.

Even if buying a MEGACart is something I would recommend to anyone who's a VIC enthousiast, that would only provide you with modified versions of many cartridges. Also, extracting them from the cart back to disk may not be so easy as the menu has to be activated to have access to them and they all autostart now, even the Scott Adams ones...

As a purist, I would like to have both the modified and the original versions. But also as a concerned VIC-20 fan, I would like at least the original versions to be available at large even when I'm too old to use my own VIC...

Most (maybe all) new stuff about the VIC-20 that appeared on Zimmer's over the last year was sent to him by... yours truly.

[ral-clan]

As an archivist and someone who works in museums, I agree and totally see the logic of what Eslapion is proposing.