Off topics section

[Jeff-20]

Based on recent recurring requests, I would like to propose some revisions to the forum:

1. Merging the international section into appropriate existing sections (with consistent language indicators in the topic titles). Please use this thread to contest the proposed change if you disagree. This sorting process may happen gradually.

2. Closing the "Off Topic" section. Some feel it has become divisive and possibly, by definition, irrelevant to the mission of Denial.

Please signify your position in the poll. This poll is not a democratic vote. I would just like to know your position before making changes. The sections as they are now would be archived for legacy but hidden and closed to access from all. My goal is to simplify the forum and work toward the journal as a primary product of Denial. Your input is valued and appreciated.
Thanks.

[English Invader]

One thing to remember is that the recent controversy started in the Buy/Sell/Trade section over the non-purchase of a VIC-20 cartridge. Quarrelsome people will create quarrels no matter what the subject is. A forum section is only as good or as bad as the people who use it.

A lot of forums have a clear policy to prevent political and religious discussion (which this forum doesn't have as far as I know). Lemon 64 became a lot better when that policy became more strongly enforced. Same deal with AtariAge. They're both at the more tolerant end but they have strong rules about what they won't tolerate and enforce them. The result is happy communities where everyone gets along.

I would hate for Denial to become a 1984 type forum where new members have to have their posts approved by admin until they earn full posting privileges and you don't dare post a joke for fear of getting a strike against your account. I prefer to be a part of forums that have free and uninhibited discussion.

[Jeff-20]

The poll is not in response to any one quarrel or controversy. Political conversations have become more difficult in recent times and may not be best served in a forum about an old computer.

[AndyH]

I missed some interesting topics in the International section, and as modern browsers can automatically translate it would make sense to merge. I have no interest in the off topic section at all and by its very title it is irrelevant to the Vic.

[groepaz]

The only thing an "Offtopic" Secion serves in any forum i know is endless stream of pointless babble that frequently turns into a flaming mess. Just dont.

[Gyro Gearloose]

Maybe make it so that a new topic appears immediately but any replies in this section take a few hours to display with an option for the sender to cancel it before it publishes. A cooling-off period.

[eslapion]

There is a vague familiarity to this...

tenor.gif (120.02 KiB) Viewed 5705 times

[Jeff-20]

I'll confess I've been offended in the past by a few of the conversations posted here. So as an example, some of you may already know I am a Black person. Considering the focus of the forum is the VIC 20, many of us grew up in a time period that cultivated different values from now. I have been disquieted to know the views on my race from some members and wished we kept the conversation more narrow. I'm sure we all have our sensitivities.
I wonder how many participants suffer in silence reading conversations we may not need to have in this community. I appreciate free speech, but I should be able to pursue those conversations on different platforms.

[eslapion]

... I have been disquieted to know the views on my race from some members and wished we kept the conversation more narrow. I'm sure we all have our sensitivities.
...

For me, 'disquieted' is not the word I would use. More like pissed and revolted.

Well, you know all too well my point of view on this if you saw my posts in the Donald Trump thread. Usually people who are xenophobic for something like the color of the skin will be just as prejudiced perhaps even more so when it comes to neurodiversity.

Plurality is a treasure and a strength.

[Jeff-20]

For me, 'disquieted' is not the word I would use. More like pissed and revolted.

Well, I guess this is my point. Everyone is entitled to sensitivities. It shouldn't be an issue if the topic never came into conversation. I don't think I need to know someone's position on my heritage to appreciate the contributions to VIC discussions.

[joshuadenmark]

My vote goes for closing the off topic, keeping the international section, making the community all computerish.

Nice Sunday to all

-Peter

[Vic20-Ian]

I voted to keep both.

International is fine merged or unmerged.

Off Topic - useful as a filter with rare bits of interest e.g. other system info.

Where will all the non relevant posts go otherwise, better they do not clog up the rest of the forum.

Off topic move is one of the better moderator tools.

I would have voted for quicker locking of political and religious topics and blatantly rude posts if that had been an option.

[English Invader]

Where will all the non relevant posts go otherwise, better they do not clog up the rest of the forum.

I don't think that's the best justification to keep OT. The idea is that non-relevant posts won't go anywhere because there won't be a place for them and the people who want to write them will either become more involved with the VIC-20 or go somewhere else.

I also voted to keep OT because I don't think the OT section is the root of the problems here and, from a personal point of view, I like OT. The VIC-20 is one of many systems that I use and one of many interests I have. I actually found this forum to be a good place to talk about Hi-Fi audio equipment when I was just getting into the hobby; highinfidelity was particularly helpful (if a little intense at times) and the end result of those exchanges is that I have a Hi-Fi system I love that gives me many hours of joy. I find it hard to believe that I'm the only one here that's ever benefited from OT discussion.

I feel that one of the best compliments I can give this forum is that I've often felt like I would rather share things I enjoy with a group of people I feel I can trust than take a chance on an unknown forum.

[eslapion]

I left a post in MCes' new expander thread clearly indicate why and how the memory chip on it contains lead (it's a chinese fake chip) and is therefore illegal for sale because it contains lead. This post was deleted.

ergo: there is no room for me on Denial

I deleted a ton of my own posts and I asked Jeff to delete everything I posted since 2006. The deletion of that post confirms it.

.. presenting yourself as the New Messiah of electrical engineering and parading your AS as a badge of victimhood.

... You provide a good service in niche areas that aren't covered by many other people but that doesn't make you "special" or "gifted" and neither does your AS. Remember that you are but one person in this community - just like everyone else.

I most certainly don't think of myself as 'gifted', 'special' or 'a messiah'. I think it's the other way around.

There's a few individual who do totally irresponsible things with consequences that may not be so apparent but they are very real.

Deleting my post means the Denial community endorses the violation of RoHS regulations. Deleting my post means shut the f***-up. I won't.

Off-topic or not, the issue remains the same. People have a right to know and deleting the post is silencing dissent.

[Jeff-20]

Do you all think a pinned rules section might be enough to fix the problem?

Code: Select all

1. No Spamming or Advertising
2. No Abusing or Insulting Members
3. No Adult, Vulgar, Offensive, or other Contentious Content
4. No Political discussions
etc. etc.

A moderator could point to the specific violation and delete posts past or present. I admit I enjoyed learning about brexit from members closer to the issue or discussing the world cup predictions...