Is Vic-20 = THE least powerful computer in history?

[Vic 2000]

ZX81?

Then you're going to play your games in glorious black and white. Then came Sinclairs first colour computer, ZX Spectrum. If you think that Vic-20 has small memory, ZX81 had 1Kb internal memory.

ZX81 was like Vic-20, a cheap affordable computer for it's time.

[bloguidice]

ZX81?

Then you're going to play your games in glorious black and white. Then came Sinclairs first colour computer, ZX Spectrum. If you think that Vic-20 has small memory, ZX81 had 1Kb internal memory.

ZX81 was like Vic-20, a cheap affordable computer for it's time.

It's difficult getting any of the ZX80, ZX81, or Timex Sinclair 1000/1500 systems to play nice with many displays even. The picture is often washed out. While I have all of those systems, it's comical to compare them in any way to the Vic-20, which was a real computer released right around the same, though the actual technological difference between the two is like a generation apart. While it's true that the ZX80 and ZX81 were the cheapest computers for their time, it's arguable if many would agree that even at the time it was worth the investment, particularly in retrospect, and particularly with how fast computers like the Vic-20 dropped in price. The early ZX systems are a historical curiosity and something to tinker with today for us collectors, but hardly comparable to something like a Vic-20, even if the Vic-20 itself is a modest system considering what came just a year after it in the C-64.

[Vic 2000]

ZX-80/81 was cheap "learn how to program" computers and games was more a bonus then a vital part on such computers. The VIC chip was created to run arcade games at first but ended up in Commodores new computer instead. Vic-20 was good for both gaming and educational purposes in the early 80's, for a low affordable price.

[Questarian]

I just bought ZX81 (I hope it works). Maybe VIC is better than it? But who cares. New machine, new challenges.

Every one of these old machine offers it's own unique challenges, and I'm a big fan of them all

The ZX81/TS1000 has a pretty active community and if your curious about what the little ZX can do, Check out:

http://www.sinclairzxworld.com/ - A ZX80/81 community forum hosted by RWAP
http://www.rwapsoftware.co.uk/ - A ZX80/81 developer
http://www.sellmyretro.com/ - RWAP's store site that they maintain... and a sort of retro computer ebay of thing as well

I think one of the measures of an old computer is how active it's community has remained after these many years. My personal experience has been that C= community is probably one of the largest and most active, and there are good sized active communities with Atari 8bit & ST, Apple II, TRS-80 color computer. I 'm not sure about ZX Spectrum, though there is a good amount of new Spectrum hardware out there, or the TI/99 series. The ZX81 community is smaller but active and there's been plenty of new hardware showing up for it. I've seen a smattering of new hardware for the Trs-80 Model I,II,IV, Coleco Adam, and I even picked up a Mattel Aquarius Anthology cart about a year or so ago. Unfortunately, online communities have a tenancy to wax-and-wane cyclically so what up today is down tomorrow until someone pick up the mantle next week.

-John-

[Questarian]

ZX-80/81 was cheap "learn how to program" computers and games was more a bonus then a vital part on such computers. The VIC chip was created to run arcade games at first but ended up in Commodores new computer instead. Vic-20 was good for both gaming and educational purposes in the early 80's, for a low affordable price.

The Vic-20, ZX-81/Timex Sinclair 1000, and TRS-80 MC-10 where all targeting to be low, or at least lower, cost alternatives... MC-10 probably being the least successful attempt as during it's release (1983-1984) it's big brother, the Color Computer 2, was often on sale for well below what MC-10 and it's 16K cart cost.

-John-

[bloguidice]

The Vic-20, ZX-81/Timex Sinclair 1000, and TRS-80 MC-10 where all targeting to be low, or at least lower, cost alternatives... MC-10 probably being the least successful attempt as during it's release (1983-1984) it's big brother, the Color Computer 2, was often on sale for well below what MC-10 and it's 16K cart cost.

-John-

Yeah, we talked about that briefly in our recent book, "CoCo: The Colorful History of Tandy's Underdog Computer" as well. Once you added the all but necessary 16K memory expansion (which unlocked the remaining modes of the VDG) to the MC-10, you were just $70 shy of the cost of a 16K CoCo 2, which featured a real keyboard, more expansion options, and far more software. Tandy, like several other companies, were faked into thinking that the ZX-81/Sinclair 1000 would be a longer lasting market factor than it was, and that the desire for ultra low cost computing would continue in the face of the dropping prices of more powerful/versatile computers like the Commodore 64.

[Vic 2000]

The Biggest site for ZX Spectrum, lots of things to download from their ftp
http://www.worldofspectrum.org/

World of Spectrum forum
http://www.worldofspectrum.org/forums/

I regulary download new games from Spain and Russia so Spectrum seems to be very much alive in both Russia and Spain.

[bloguidice]

The Biggest site for ZX Spectrum, lots of things to download from their ftp
http://www.worldofspectrum.org/

World of Spectrum forum
http://www.worldofspectrum.org/forums/

I regulary download new games from Spain and Russia so Spectrum seems to be very much alive in both Russia and Spain.

No one is saying there's anything wrong with the ZX Spectrum (series), which is a reasonably colorful computer with decent sound and continued support from a thriving community. We were talking about its black and white and sound-less predecessor, the ZX81 (series). The ZX81 series actually has solid support too, but it's a very different beast and is a rather jarring experience if you're not prepared for what it actually is when going in. Even among black and white computers it's one of the more obtuse to use and function.

[Vic 2000]

Clive Sinclair created a serie of cheap affordable computers. ZX81 was the first computer ever to be sold for a price under 1000 swedish Kr while Vic-20 was almost 2.5 times as expensive, yet cheap compared to Atari 800 or C64. Neither ZX80 or ZX81 was thought to be computers for gaming and ZX Spectrum was a "serious" computer too even if ZX Spectrum quickly became a games machine thanks to it's huge popularity in Britain.

Clive Sinclair made both innovative and very cheap peripherals to his new computer, like the microdrive for exemple. Everything to ZX Spectrum was cheap, even the games was cheaper to buy then to other computers.

What ZX Spectrum had that both ZX80/81 missed whas colour and a descent amount of RAM. And even of ZX Spectrum wasn't thought of to be a computer for gaming it was excellent at some types of games.

It's good to hear that even ZX-81 is alive these days.

I will finish to show you some artwork done on ZX Spectrum. I'll guess that you will be as impressed that i was the first time i watched ZX Spectrum pixel art.

[Witzo]

Awesome pictures.

[Questarian]

[snip]... The ZX81 series actually has solid support too, but it's a very different beast and is a rather jarring experience if you're not prepared for what it actually is when going in. Even among black and white computers it's one of the more obtuse to use and function.

Hmm, I don't know about that... Having used a good number of early B&W rigs, most with little or no sound... beep, beep ,beep never really counted with me... I have to take issue with describing the ZX-81 experience as being singularly "jarring" or "obtuse", unless of course you broaden that statement to describe the new user experience with every 80's computer other then perhaps the Macintosh, Atari ST, or Amiga.... From the perspective of an average 1980's user there was absolutely nothing particularly intuitive or straight forward in these early machines. Oh, they were simple enough if you shove a cartridge into them, but beyond that they all suffered from some variation of the same god-awfully text/command line interfaces, requiring fairly hefty "getting started" manual who's quality and depth varied wildly between systems... not exactly a point and click experience yet

-John-

[Vic 2000]

I think that colour computers with descent graphics and sound capabilities was the real start for that we today call computing, letting the users use their imagination to create in sound, shape and colour. Even if computer demos started on the 8bit machines the real demo boom was when 16bit Atari ST and Amiga arrived where people created the most fantastic experiences using colours and sound while they pushed the machines to it's limits using only some clever coding.

Yet computers like (swedish) ABC 80 or Sinclair ZX81 has it's special charm that no other computer can give you. Besides that, most of us are multimachine users, i'll guess that very few people owned only one computer in the 80's and 90's. I'm member in several forums and owned both Atari and Commodore computers. I read Your Sinclair and Sinclair User for several years in the 80's even if i didn't own any of Sinclairs computers. It was fun reading anyway.

My very first game console was a very limited one, Fairchild Channel F was all about simplicity, yet i had plenty of fun playing with blobs in max 3 colours on the screen to the sound from only one soundchannel coming from a built in speaker. The breakout version for Channel F is still today tremendous fun to play (on the MESS emulator).

I will finish this posting showing some impressive C64 art

[Misfit]

I just received my ZX81 and it so cute. Is this a toy or computer? I have to find a power supply and then I'm ready to action. Okay! VIC-20 is a real computer if you compare it to this "machine".

[beamrider]

x81 always looked like a hobbyists toy Indeed I remember that they were available in kit form to build yourself. Not in the same league as the vic.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

[bloguidice]

[snip]... The ZX81 series actually has solid support too, but it's a very different beast and is a rather jarring experience if you're not prepared for what it actually is when going in. Even among black and white computers it's one of the more obtuse to use and function.

Hmm, I don't know about that... Having used a good number of early B&W rigs, most with little or no sound... beep, beep ,beep never really counted with me... I have to take issue with describing the ZX-81 experience as being singularly "jarring" or "obtuse", unless of course you broaden that statement to describe the new user experience with every 80's computer other then perhaps the Macintosh, Atari ST, or Amiga.... From the perspective of an average 1980's user there was absolutely nothing particularly intuitive or straight forward in these early machines. Oh, they were simple enough if you shove a cartridge into them, but beyond that they all suffered from some variation of the same god-awfully text/command line interfaces, requiring fairly hefty "getting started" manual who's quality and depth varied wildly between systems... not exactly a point and click experience yet

-John-

Yes, I would say in comparison to most other black and white machines, the ZX80/81/Sinclair 1000 are "jarring" and "obtuse." Whether it's the flat membrane "keyboard" or the fact that everything is essentially input via keywords/shortcuts, it's not particularly intuitive. Compare that to something like a TRS-80 or Commodore PET that came out several years earlier - not to mention some of the more obscure machines like the Interact or the Exidy Sorcerer, among many others - and it's perhaps one of the least friendly computing experiences of its day. It was cheap, though, which was a big plus back then, at least for a while.