Denial

Hi, y'all.

I'm writing this post to get rid of a nagging feeling that's hunting me for quite some time now.

In November 2010, I published a mod for the VIC-20, which greatly enhances its video capabilities, while still maintaining compatibility with older programs. Together with a PC-based converter, it is now possible to display photo-realistic images in a resolution of 208x256 pixels with all 16 colours of the VIC-20. That prospect should really speak for itself.

I won't delve much further into the technical details, they have been covered to a great extent in said thread. In any case, I took quite some time not only to perform the mod together with a friend, but also document it thoroughly with photos and a text description and I also programmed a prototype display routine, and the image converter. Judging from the number of hardware-knowledgable people here in the forum, I then thought it would take maybe 1 or 2 months for someone else to reproduce the mod, and, after one year 5, maybe 6 VIC-20's might have been modded.

However, to date I did not get any confirmation that another VIC-20 has been modded!

Rather, only some people mostly indicated they might perform the mod, but really didn't follow through.

I'm quite aware, that this modification on the mainboard is not that easy to do like for example the S-Video mod. Nethertheless, I think the instructions are quite elaborate, and also help to avoid some common errors.

As this project didn't find a good continuation, I did not find a good reason to write much more software for it. Currently only the converter and display program, and a small set of tools exist - one of them being a panning viewer for unmodified VIC-20's, as demonstrator.

Without anyone else also having a such-alike VIC-20, I don't see any sense to add a BASIC extension, and other programs/games/demos.

So my question: what is happening here?

My guess is most people isn't very interested in making a modification to their vic-20 just to be able to display a few pictures. I mean, there is better hardware out there to display pictures today. Your efforts and results are very admirable for sure, but that is how I feel and I suspect I'm not the only one.

Hey Mike

I can only answer for myself, since I only have one fully working vic in my possession, I would not risk anything that could end up with a dead machine.

But when this is said, great mod and one I would like to perform when I get an extra machine. But with my lonely machine, I don't dare.

I was excited to see the development (and very appreciative)! My personal tastes, as all of you know, is mostly for a stock VIC. Even with elaborate instructions, I feel I lack the skills to do most mods, maybe other members are in the same situation. I hope that doesn't discourage you from developing further projects.

I'm excited about any vic experiment. There's always an audience, even if small. It's not like every member downloads my basic games or has time to even try them, but a few do, and that's cool. So, in response to the question: the group is small; it's not easy to say what's happening with this particular project other than that its value is apparent.

Mike wrote:However, to date I did not get any confirmation that another VIC-20 has been modded!

I am curious about it. I do have extra VIC-20s, but as I understand it, the modifications are for PAL VIC-20s and not the NTSC VIC-20s I have. I have one PAL VIC-20, but I don't want to mod that one.

Truly,
Robert Bernardo
Fresno Commodore User Group
http://videocam.net.au/fcug

I too only have NTSC VIC-20s. Am I correct that more than 50% of the users on Denial are from North America and don't have PAL machines?

Just last week I told a friend about your mod, and how it demonstrates that hacking old hardware is worthwhile. I think the core fun of the hack is to demonstrate how the VIC-I, given an improved environment, has more ability then was ever used in the wild.
It is way beyond my skills to do it on my VIC. But I have shown people the pictures on here!

Hi Mike, having also burnt many hours working on retro projects on various platforms when I could have been spending time with the wife and kids, I completely sympathise. I too have had plenty of people express interest and say "I must build one of those" or "will you make me one?" and when you inquire sometime after the initial interest, you get "I've just been so busy with [work|family|house]."

After grumping a bit I decided that they're probably right. I spend more time than most on this hobby, probably to the detriment of other aspects of my life. I console myself with the fact that I still got a kick out of doing it and I am proud of what I did.

Totally coincidentally, I only read the original thread over the weekend and I'm lucky enough to have the parts in stock. Will I do it? Yes, at some point. It's on my scrum board along with another dozen or so retro tasks.

Rob

It's probably beyond my abilities to some degree but I have a spare non-working Vic 20 that I really want to fix. I wouldn't mind doing your mod after seeing your last beautiful post...seeing as I have a working Vic - why settle for 2 normal ones when I can make another one special. I'm decent with a soldering iron and my father who was a electrician by trade could easily help me out with the finer points. The desire is there for me to attempt this really soon - I was thinking about it all this past week before this thread. My idea was that I'd be possibly the second person (or among a very tiny handful amount) only to have something this cool (a real rare gem!). The most important piece of the puzzle is my desire to learn - I've learnt so much here and I think a project like this is just what I need for me to grow.

Hi!

First of all, thank you for your responses. They gave me hope I was not totally off track with this project.

So, where is it at?

@Jeff-20 and @Witzo: It is in order to be conscious about whether one wants to keep the purist approach and/or is cautious to keep working hardware working ('if it ain't broke - don't fix it') ... I simply had this dream about what could be done on the VIC-20 with just a little bit 'nudge', and I am happy you appreciate the result!


@Boray: I could quite as well ask why people still want to program on the VIC-20 for that matter.

The mod can also be used for other things, like double-buffering (parts of) a bitmap. Also, you are not confined to still images, there is still some CPU time left while a full format VFLI image is being displayed.


@joshuadenmark, @crock and @darkatx: I understand it is not an easy decision to undertake the mod - even when one is good at electronics and soldering -, when there is only one VIC-20 to tinker around with. But if you come to do it, welcome to the club!


@ral-clan and @RobertBe: The hardware mod can also be done on a NTSC VIC-20. However, at the moment there is actually no display routine available for V(I)FLI images. Target resolution would be 168x384i in 16 colours.


Half a year ago, Eslapion donated a defective NTSC VIC-20 to tokra, who in turn sent it to me. In the last days, I found the time to repair it, and while being at it, implemented the first part of the mod as well. Incidentally, it is also a 2-prong VIC-20. The other two combinations, PAL 2-prong and NTSC DIN are equally possible. Expect results at the beginning of next year - here is a view of the 'proof of concept' work:



The adapter sockets with the free wiring will be replaced by a PCB carrying just the 8K RAM chip and a few SMD parts.

I, personally do not have the technical ability to do this, but would love to see it in action.

I couldn't do the mod myself, and having just one VIC 20, I'd be reluctant to have it done anyway. I think it is an interesting project though; it's always good to see the VIC stretched beyond its normal abilities.
It's a shame a cartridge version could not be available, but I suppose that is technically impossible.

Hey, Mike. I saw your post too. Excellent work. I have two Vic 20's, one has a bad video chip. I considered duplicating your efforts, but then I felt as Boray did. I like to program the Vic because its inherent limitations acts as a creative lens. Don't be dissuaded by this opinion; take it as this modification being your unique thing to show off what you can do to the world. Your uniqueness adds to the diversity of this community, and I think that's needed.

What would be really cool is if someone were able to replicate video chips to restore otherwise dead VIC's.

Yes, I echo a lot of what PaulQ just said, it gets no plainer than that... you give a lot to this user community that thrives from unique talents such as yours. And it is a good reminder to us all to reflect appreciation to such creative efforts.

Like most others, way beyond my skill... and while I can still dream of being that technically skilled at modding, heh, I'd be butchering too many good VICs in my possession if I try. And if I were successful, well, I'd probably be left wanting more. What else ya got??

Mike wrote:The hardware mod can also be done on a NTSC VIC-20. However, at the moment there is actually no display routine available for V(I)FLI images. Target resolution would be 168x384i in 16 colours.

Without a display routine, there would be no purpose to mod a NTSC VIC-20.

The adapter sockets with the free wiring will be replaced by a PCB carrying just the 8K RAM chip and a few SMD parts.

Ah, that would be much neater.

Simple is good,
Robert Bernardo
Fresno Commodore User Group
http://videocam.net.au/fcug