VIC Only?

JohnnyRockets · Post by **JohnnyRockets** » Sun Nov 11, 2012 5:11 pm

Hi!

I know that this is a VIC-20 forum, but do some here actively use the C64?

If so, how do you split your time? I like them both very much, so it is hard to really pick a favorite.

buzbard · Post by **buzbard** » Mon Nov 12, 2012 3:49 pm

Yes, I have a C64. I use it about as much as I do the VIC. I like to experiment in machine language on both and play a few games once in a while.

I just don't have as much time as I'd like to use them.

JohnnyRockets · Post by **JohnnyRockets** » Mon Nov 12, 2012 9:30 pm

buzbard wrote:Yes, I have a C64. I use it about as much as I do the VIC. I like to experiment in machine language on both and play a few games once in a while.

I just don't have as much time as I'd like to use them.

I agree! I feel the same way. I actually have mine set up side by side for just this purpose.

Post by **Jeff-20** » Mon Nov 12, 2012 10:12 pm

I use ONLY a Vic. I don't even own a C64. I did briefly at one point and enjoyed a few games, but I don't have the space for more machines. Honestly, that's not entirely true, because I have several VICs.

I may get one again if I find it cheap. I don't imagine I will ever program for it, but I do enjoy a few of the cart games: LeMans, Pinball Spectacular and Kickman. But I've learned with limitations on time and storage that it's better to focus on systems you really enjoy. It's just hard for me to get excited about the C64, and the VIC is just fabulous.

English Invader · Post by **English Invader** » Tue Nov 13, 2012 2:49 am

The VIC is my favourite of the two systems, but my interest in the C64 has stepped up a bit this year (mainly because of Retro Gamer's C64/Spectrum 30th Anniversary Book which collates a lot of information from previous issues). I think one of the things that put me off the C64 was the sheer vastness of the system (over 10,000 commercially released games) and I needed a basic reference guide to navigate my way around things.

My video game collection has become rather cosmopolitan (little bits of everything). I sometimes think about the idea of devoting myself to one system and having enough space to collect everything and anything related to it, but I love exploring different systems and different types of gaming.

I tried downsizing a little while back. At the beginning of the year, I was about 90% in favour of offloading all my Amiga/ST/C64 stuff but it never happened and my interests in those systems have come back stronger than ever.

dabone · Post by **dabone** » Tue Nov 13, 2012 6:36 am

Vic was my first, so I have a couple, but then I also have most of the commodore 8bits, from the pets to the 128.

I use the 128 the most, I prefer the keyboard on it compared to a breadbin 64.

It's suprising how different and at the same time how similar the commodore line was thru all the different models.

Later,
dabone

adric22 · Post by **adric22** » Tue Nov 13, 2012 9:33 am

For me the C64 is my primary retro computing hobby. The VIC-20 is secondary to the C64 and I spend some time playing, programming, and tinkering with it on occasion much like I do many of my other retro machines including Amiga, Apple II, MS-DOS, and the Plus/4. it is my fond hope to someday get a Commodore PET also. The main problem would be finding somewhere to store such a large machine.

I like to program sometimes as a challenge. The C64 is a challenging platform to program for because it is so limited. But the VIC-20 is even more challenging and sometimes I prefer to code for it.

crock · Post by **crock** » Tue Nov 13, 2012 11:08 am

I love the VIC because, as others have said, it was my first (WGB 0000647). At the time though, it got dumped in the attic as soon as I got a 64, which got dumped for my A1000 which got dumped for my first 486 PC and so on...

At some point though, they all got dusted off and I took the time to learn as much as I could about how they actually worked. Just learning how to repair them has been a great experience and although I still have all my original machines and they're far from pristine, they all work.

I have slowly moved to the more esoteric bits of Commodore kit over the years rather than the mainstream, having acquired a P500, a 232, a C720 and a MAX over the last few years.

My interest in the VIC has been recently rekindled as I managed to get a Japanese VIC-1001. It also blows me away that people are still creating such fabulous demos and still pushing the boundaries of what is possible.

Rob

JohnnyRockets · Post by **JohnnyRockets** » Tue Nov 13, 2012 11:26 am

Jeff-20 wrote:I use ONLY a Vic. I don't even own a C64. I did briefly at one point and enjoyed a few games, but I don't have the space for more machines. Honestly, that's not entirely true, because I have several VICs.

I may get one again if I find it cheap. I don't imagine I will ever program for it, but I do enjoy a few of the cart games: LeMans, Pinball Spectacular and Kickman. But I've learned with limitations on time and storage that it's better to focus on systems you really enjoy. It's just hard for me to get excited about the C64, and the VIC is just fabulous.

Hi Jeff-20!

I agree it is fabulous! But why do YOU think so? I'm curious what your thoughts are. If I had to choose between the systems and could only have one, the VIC would be the one. But I do enjoy playing with both.

Pedro Lambrini · Post by **Pedro Lambrini** » Tue Nov 13, 2012 11:43 am

adric22 wrote:...But the VIC-20 is even more challenging and sometimes I prefer to code for it.

I still enjoy your last game.

Okay JohnnyRockets, why do you like the Vic? Why would you choose the Vic over the C64? Share with us!

As for me, I've got a few computers and consoles and though I play all of them my first love is the Vic. Like most here, it's probably more to do with nostalgia than anything else as it was my first machine too.

One of the things I like about older computers in general is that they all have different personalities. Ports of different games on different machines each had their own flavour and it was always interesting and exciting to see these differences on my friends' computers. Nowadays, the mainstream releases on the PS3, 360 and Windows PC pretty much look and play the same across all 3 platforms... Boring!!

So, for me, the Vic just has the personality that suits me the best. It's humble (even for it's time) but it's accessible. I don't really code and I just really play games and watch demos and the Vic pushes my buttons with it's small but colourful palette and it's chunky pixels and it's slightly out of tune sound. I just like it.

I love the SID chip and listen to tonnes of tunes all the time but other than that the C64 just never touched me the same. It impresses me and I do like some of the games but it just doesn't hold me.

The closest machine to my heart next to the Vic would be the VCS. I actually only got my first one a couple of years ago but to me it's like the Vic's best pal. They compliment each other really well in their own humble way.

JohnnyRockets · Post by **JohnnyRockets** » Tue Nov 13, 2012 1:34 pm

Pedro Lambrini wrote:
adric22 wrote:...But the VIC-20 is even more challenging and sometimes I prefer to code for it.
I still enjoy your last game.

Okay JohnnyRockets, why do you like the Vic? Why would you choose the Vic over the C64? Share with us!

As for me, I've got a few computers and consoles and though I play all of them my first love is the Vic. Like most here, it's probably more to do with nostalgia than anything else as it was my first machine too.

One of the things I like about older computers in general is that they all have different personalities. Ports of different games on different machines each had their own flavour and it was always interesting and exciting to see these differences on my friends' computers. Nowadays, the mainstream releases on the PS3, 360 and Windows PC pretty much look and play the same across all 3 platforms... Boring!!

So, for me, the Vic just has the personality that suits me the best. It's humble (even for it's time) but it's accessible. I don't really code and I just really play games and watch demos and the Vic pushes my buttons with it's small but colourful palette and it's chunky pixels and it's slightly out of tune sound. I just like it.

I love the SID chip and listen to tonnes of tunes all the time but other than that the C64 just never touched me the same. It impresses me and I do like some of the games but it just doesn't hold me.

The closest machine to my heart next to the Vic would be the VCS. I actually only got my first one a couple of years ago but to me it's like the Vic's best pal. They compliment each other really well in their own humble way.

Hi Pedro,

Ha, ha! Well, I have only recently "rediscovered" the VIC-20. It was my first computer and man, I loved that thing and will never forget buying it and all that I did with it. Of course now, I kick myself for ever getting rid of it, but alas, I have purchased a new one so all is well.

I like the VIC-20 more than the C64 because you have so little resources to work with it is challenging. BUT, the C64 is a VERY close second to me, because it represents more horsepower that I could not afford as a kid!

I so much agree with you Pedro that the older computers have personality, that is lacking in today's machines (in my opinion).

I also agree with you about the VCS, they do have similarities as far as the time they became available and what they could do, etc.

I felt some love for my first Intel 286, but after that the computers lost their personality and because more like refrigerators and toasters to me. Just something you bought to accomplish tasks.

The VIC-20 has got me on fire for programming like never before and like you mentioned Pedro, it is just so accessible. I can do so much and have such open access to the machine, it is just cool on many levels.

Because of rediscovering these two machines (VIC-20/C64) in the last 3 months, I see a new hobby emerging for me and a rekindling of my interest in programming and all things 8 bit!

Thanks for asking!

lance.ewing · Post by **lance.ewing** » Wed Nov 14, 2012 2:49 am

In my case, my older brother (9 years my senior) had a C64 for a while. He had bought it himself. This was a bit before I got a VIC 20. I remember peeking through his bedroom door and seeing this really cool alien ship hovering over a planet surface on his TV screen. It captured my imagination. He left home not long after that. I never got a chance to try it.

After that I remember being in computer/electronic stores, drooling over the C64 and wishing I had one. The VIC 20 was no longer sold at that time (~1985). I must have begged my parents to get one but I think it was out of our price range. My parents started looking at second hand adverts and there was a second hand VIC 20 that we could afford. I didn't mind too much because it looked a lot like a C64.

So the VIC was my first computer and for a few years after I got it, it took up nearly all my spare time. I fell in love with it. Since then I've never felt the need to look at a C64.

Witzo · Post by **Witzo** » Wed Nov 14, 2012 4:50 am

As I've learned from other hobbies: limitations breed creativity.
The question changes from "What do I want to make?" to "What can I make?", giving a lead to what to make.

lance.ewing · Post by **lance.ewing** » Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:59 am

Witzo wrote:As I've learned from other hobbies: limitations breed creativity.
The question changes from "What do I want to make?" to "What can I make?", giving a lead to what to make.

I'm a fan of the Java 4K programming contest:

http://www.java4k.com

The limitations in that contest are very similar to what you have on a VIC 20. The JAR file can be no bigger than 4K. So a few years ago when I saw this, I thought I'd have a go at writing a version of Rockman in Java and submit it to the Java 4K contest.

http://vic-20.appspot.com/vicgames.htm#rockman

I figured that if Rockman could be written for an unexpanded VIC 20 then I should be able to write the same thing in 4K in Java. I disassembled the Rockman code, commented the whole thing so I knew what it was doing, and then set about implementing the same logic.

I gave up when I started creeping above 4K and still had a lot to implement. Maybe the Java 4K gurus would have been able to achieve it, but through that experience I really admire how such games were able to be created for the unexpanded VIC.

16KVIC20 · Post by **16KVIC20** » Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:02 am

I have the following old computers/consoles:

VIC 20
C64
Spectrum 48K
Spectrum +3
Nintendo Entertainment System Clone
Atari Flashback 3 (VCS Clone)

My first was the VIC 20, so it will alsways be special, and probably my favourite.
The C64 is just such an amazing machine for the era though, it is really impressive. Graphics and Sound are a big upgrade from the VIC.

Spectrums, in my opinion are just too unreliable. The beeper sound is really bad, and the AY38910 still isn't very good.

The NES and VCS are good fun too.