3.5" PC floppy Drive - Convert to VIC 20/C64

[16KVIC20]

I don't have a commodore disk drive, and I don't really want one either, I think they're bulky and I don't like 5.25" disks much either. I don't really want to fork out on a SD device either.

I was wondering if it is possible to make an old PC Floppy drive, 3.5", compatible with a VIC 20/C64. Presumably it would need a din plug wired in somewhere, and it would need a couple of those 6522 chips as well. Assuming it could be done, would it then be as simple as transferring a .d64 image or .prg file from a website onto a 3.5 inch floppy, and then putting it in the new drive on the VIC or the 64? Something tells me that sounds way too easy.

[Mike]

Forget it.

CBM drives contain a complete computer, with CPU, RAM, ROM and I/O.

In the last months, it occured to me, that you are searching with verve for the most complicated, unreliable and non-standard solutions to transfer data between VIC-20 and PC. Please do yourself and us a favour, buy a SD2IEC device, and actually try it out.

[16KVIC20]

Forget it.

CBM drives contain a complete computer, with CPU, RAM, ROM and I/O.

In the last months, it occured to me, that you are searching with verve for the most complicated, unreliable and non-standard solutions to transfer data between VIC-20 and PC. Please do yourself and us a favour, buy a SD2IEC device, and actually try it out.

Thank you for clearing that up Mike. As for trying to pursue the most awkward method of data transfer possible, I think you have made an error of judgement there. I have simply been trying to find solutions that are either free (WinTZX making tapes for example), or potentially cheaper if possible (the 3.5" floppy idea). I probably will get an SD device one day, but in the meantime, it's good to have other options. There is not an endless source of money to finance what is just a hobby.

Many apologies if I have irritated you, but personally I think it is good to explore ideas for these old machines, even if they are non starters as this appears to be, at least I know that now.

[Mike]

I have simply been trying to find solutions that are either free (WinTZX making tapes for example),

... which, as you pointed out in another post, has just a success rate of 50%, at least for you.

Furthermore, you need to acknowledge, that not every program can be converted to run from tape. Programs/games that rely upon that data can be fetched from storage in no particular order (like, for example, VICtoria Gold) require at least a floppy drive. You could still try these out in VICE, but if you don't, you won't know what you're potentially missing out.

SD2IEC devices give you a much easier transfer by using a storage medium which can now be accessed by both VIC-20 and PC with no further hassles. If you do not only want to play games, but seriously want to go into programming (as you've indicated somewhere else), data transfer is the last thing you want to have troubles with.

[Schema]

I was wondering if it is possible to make an old PC Floppy drive, 3.5", compatible with a VIC 20/C64. Presumably it would need a din plug wired in somewhere, and it would need a couple of those 6522 chips as well.

Sure, get one of these and put a PC floppy drive in it (with suitable mods if needed).

http://www.jppbm.com/1581kits.html

You're essentially building a 1581, but they are the most compact of all the Commodore drives.

[Mike]

Interesting. I didn't know about these.

$49.95 + $32.95 (for the JiffyDOS ROM, as the SD2IEC devices are already JiffyDOS enabled) = $82.90; not that cheap solution either.

[16KVIC20]

I have simply been trying to find solutions that are either free (WinTZX making tapes for example),

... which, as you pointed out in another post, has just a success rate of 50%, at least for you.

Well while being far from perfect, maybe that is enough for me at the moment.

Furthermore, you need to acknowledge, that not every program can be converted to run from tape. Programs/games that rely upon that data can be fetched from storage in no particular order (like, for example, VICtoria Gold) require at least a floppy drive. You could still try these out in VICE, but if you don't, you won't know what you're potentially missing out.

I've never heard of VICtoria Gold, what is it? I am well aware that some programs require a floppy or similar drive, I'm not a complete stranger to these types of devices being linked to 8 bit equipment. I had a DivIDE+ for my spectrum, some of the programs made much use of the facility of which you speak. One of them was a spectrum version of the 1909 Alice in Wonderland Film, running on a 48K spectrum, but being fed from the DivIDE+. It was quite something to see (I must admmit I didn't watch it all).

So based on that, I don't think I need to acknowledge anything, actually.

It might also surprise you to know that I use VICE quite frequently, and find it a very useful tool indeed, so I don't really miss out on anything. As a matter of preference I like to use the original hardware, but alas, this is not always possible.

SD2IEC devices give you a much easier transfer by using a storage medium which can now be accessed by both VIC-20 and PC with no further hassles. If you do not only want to play games, but seriously want to go into programming (as you've indicated somewhere else), data transfer is the last thing you want to have troubles with.

I agree with you, and as I also mentioned previously, I think in my last post in fact, I probably shall get one of these SD devices one day. I still don't see why there is any harm in exploring other options first though, or why that would irritate anybody either.

[16KVIC20]

I was wondering if it is possible to make an old PC Floppy drive, 3.5", compatible with a VIC 20/C64. Presumably it would need a din plug wired in somewhere, and it would need a couple of those 6522 chips as well.

Sure, get one of these and put a PC floppy drive in it (with suitable mods if needed).

http://www.jppbm.com/1581kits.html

You're essentially building a 1581, but they are the most compact of all the Commodore drives.

OK, thanks Schema, I kind of like that idea, building a whole new retro drive from scratch. What about transferring from PC to the VIC/64 though? Is it a case of download straight from source onto a disk in the PC, and then it works on a VIC/64, or is some other software/tinkering required? I can't believe it's that easy. I know for ZX Spectrum +3, if you add a PC 3.5" drive you can only use the Blue floppies (or black ones if you cover some holes, but sometimes that doesn't work well) and you need special transfer program.

[Mike]

I've never heard of VICtoria Gold, what is it?

VICtoria Gold is a round-based strategy game based in Ancient Rome, which orion70 and I wrote in 2008. There have been two updates since release, here's the current version for download.

It might also be interesting for you to check out the other 'software releases' threads of 2008, 2009, 2010, and 2011. Many of these releases come on *.d64 or even *.d81 files, for good reasons.

[Schema]

OK, thanks Schema, I kind of like that idea, building a whole new retro drive from scratch. What about transferring from PC to the VIC/64 though? Is it a case of download straight from source onto a disk in the PC, and then it works on a VIC/64, or is some other software/tinkering required?

You need to use double-density disks. You can't read/write files directly, but you can use .D81 images to transfer complete disks with one of these tools:

http://noname.c64.org/csdb/release/?id=40120
or
http://www.shlock.co.uk/Utils/OmniFlop/OmniFlop.htm

[16KVIC20]

OK, thanks Schema, I kind of like that idea, building a whole new retro drive from scratch. What about transferring from PC to the VIC/64 though? Is it a case of download straight from source onto a disk in the PC, and then it works on a VIC/64, or is some other software/tinkering required?

You need to use double-density disks. You can't read/write files directly, but you can use .D81 images to transfer complete disks with one of these tools:

http://noname.c64.org/csdb/release/?id=40120
or
http://www.shlock.co.uk/Utils/OmniFlop/OmniFlop.htm

Thanks Schema.