Is a port of this 48K ZX Spectrum Game possible?

[16KVIC20]

The Game is W*H*B*, and can be found here:

http://www.zxspectrum.net/

If you scroll to 2009 and select WHB (it's the last on the list).

I'm no programmer, but I've never seen anything like this on the VIC, is it possible with 32K for example? I suppose it would probably need 40 columns too. Th espectrum version is really good, but it would be great to see a version on the VIC, I know that those beeper tunes could be bettered on the VIC chip. (Love the fact that JetPac is better on the VIC than on the Spectrum). Both machines are great, but the VIC was my first computer.

Is there anything similar to this for the VIC. It has been a very long time since I've been away from the VIC 20 scene.

[Bacon]

There's no program like this on the VIC as far as I know, but it certainly is doable. It would need to have have slightly lower resolution and, most importantly, a skilled programmer would need to have the time and interest to do it.

[16KVIC20]

There's no program like this on the VIC as far as I know, but it certainly is doable. It would need to have have slightly lower resolution and, most importantly, a skilled programmer would need to have the time and interest to do it.

OK, Bacon, thanks for your reply. Unfortunately I'm no programmer, but I did think the resolution may be an issue. Still it's positive that it could be done. There never were many isometric games for the VIC as I recall. I had a 16K one, called "The Dark Dungeons", but it was nothing as elaborate as "Alien 8" for example It just showed the outline of the room, which at the time I thought was amazing.

[Kweepa]

There never were many isometric games for the VIC as I recall.

I don't think there were any!

I had a 16K one, called "The Dark Dungeons"

That has a first person view. It's quite a sophisticated game... unfortunately the lantern only lasts a few minutes. It took me that long to work out what the keys do. (H for help.)

[16KVIC20]

There never were many isometric games for the VIC as I recall.

I don't think there were any!

I had a 16K one, called "The Dark Dungeons"

That has a first person view. It's quite a sophisticated game... unfortunately the lantern only lasts a few minutes. It took me that long to work out what the keys do. (H for help.)

It was also prone to cheating! I reckon anyway. It was quite a nice game for the 16K VIC. I'll be seeing if I can get a copy of it again. I bought "The Dungeons" shortly afterwards, but the actual cassette was faulty, it didn't physically work in a tape deck, and the shop had no more.

Anirog made some nice games actually, 3D time Trek looked nice, the only problem was they forgot to include a game!

[Mike]

The Game is W*H*B*, and can be found here:

It refused to play on my web browser, but from what I could gather from a YouTube video:

is it possible with 32K for example?

It shouldn't pose a big problem. If it is okay to load the levels from disk, even 16K might be sufficient.

I suppose it would probably need 40 columns too. [and from your second post below:] [...] I did think the resolution may be an issue.

Even though it seemed to went largely unnoticed by some people, the VIC chip indeed supports a bitmapped 160x192 pixels mode, which can also display 4-pixels-wide 40 text columns.

I know that those beeper tunes could be bettered on the VIC chip.

Well 3 square-wave generators and 1 noise generator. There surely are better sound chips around.

...

The necessary adjustments to the other resolution of the VIC-20 are a bit alleviated as the non-square pixels help a lot for the isometric view. It is not necessary to put two pixels in a row to get a non-diagonal line on screen.

The real problem lies in porting the game mechanics. Unless the source is available, you'll face the problem to infer the logic behind the game from playing it - and you'll have to play it through to know all the puzzles. The design of this game surely wasn't laid out with lead pencil on squared paper only.

[Mayhem]

Well the Speccy game was ported from elsewhere I believe, I've seen this type of game before. It could easily be done with an overhead view instead, but the isometric nature works on the Speccy.

[16KVIC20]

It refused to play on my web browser, but from what I could gather from a YouTube video:

That's a shame, I find it strangely addictive.

It shouldn't pose a big problem. If it is okay to load the levels from disk, even 16K might be sufficient.

I'm not a disk man, mind you I'm not a programmer either. I do think it would be nice to try to do something a bit different on the VIC though, and show what can be done. Just need somebody to do it!

Even though it seemed to went largely unnoticed by some people, the VIC chip indeed supports a bitmapped 160x192 pixels mode, which can also display 4-pixels-wide 40 text columns.

OK, so that's helpful then.

Well 3 square-wave generators and 1 noise generator. There surely are better sound chips around.

But surely beeper sounds from a Z80 aren't one of them?

...

[Mike]

It refused to play on my web browser, but from what I could gather from a YouTube video:

That's a shame, I find it strangely addictive.

I can quite as well run the game in an emulator, just ATM I don't have a ZX Spectrum emu installed on my PC.

I do think it would be nice to try to do something a bit different on the VIC though, and show what can be done.

You might take a look at the 'Software Releases' threads in the General section. There's still the type of programs/games, which at the best use redefined characters on a text screen (easy enough to design with lead pencil and squared paper as I mentioned earlier). But there are also some programs which have advanced beyond that simple design method.

I'm not a disk man, mind you I'm not a programmer either. [...] Just need somebody to do it!

Most programmers, graphicians, designers and composers who happen to hang around here (and on other platform boards for what matters) do already have their own share of ideas, most of those only happen to be realised if they throw enough time and motivation at it.

Just having a good idea of a game will not help them to create the necessary code and data out of thin air. There's enough hard work involved. And then there are also the necessities of real life, which also demand their share.

In your case, there's already an implementation of the game around, so the initial situation is much better indeed. But to redescribe one issue I already mentioned above:

Unless the source is available, you'll face the problem to infer the logic behind the game from playing it - and you'll have to play it through to know all the puzzles.

... I took the time and found a map containing all 40 levels in the game. Besides normal tiles and the goal tile, there are several other types, where I've put the unclear points in parenthesis:

- there are two types of switches, soft and hard, which make tiles appear and disappear (but which ones?),

- there are splitter tiles which will cause the block to be split in two, each cube then being teleported to a different point in the level (but to where?),

- glass tiles which don't withstand the block standing upright on them,

- broken tiles which can be moved over only once, and

- teleport tiles which move the upright block to a new location on the level (but, again, to where?)

If these issues are all solved - preferably without having to play through the entire game -, then the next steps could involve redesigning the graphics for the VIC-20.

But surely beeper sounds from a Z80 aren't one of them?

Both computers are capable of outputting digi sounds through the volume registers.

[nippur72]

Oh! I know this game, it's called Bloxorz and it's pretty addictive. Awesome they ported it on the Spectrum.

[16KVIC20]

Oh! I know this game, it's called Bloxorz and it's pretty addictive. Awesome they ported it on the Spectrum.

That's right. I only found it it was a net game called bloxorz the other day when I sold my DivIDE+. I'm glad they ported it to the Spectrum too, I think it works really well on there. Would still be good to see what a VIC version could be like.

[16KVIC20]

You might take a look at the 'Software Releases' threads in the General section. There's still the type of programs/games, which at the best use redefined characters on a text screen (easy enough to design with lead pencil and squared paper as I mentioned earlier). But there are also some programs which have advanced beyond that simple design method.

I'm sure there's great stuff out there, and i'll be trying out as much of it as possible.

Most programmers, graphicians, designers and composers who happen to hang around here (and on other platform boards for what matters) do already have their own share of ideas, most of those only happen to be realised if they throw enough time and motivation at it.

Time, the great problem. Nobody has enough of it.

Just having a good idea of a game will not help them to create the necessary code and data out of thin air. There's enough hard work involved. And then there are also the necessities of real life, which also demand their share.

Too true, I'm not suggesting it should be written on a whim, but if it was something somebody would like to do, having seen the game, that's different, isn't it?

In your case, there's already an implementation of the game around, so the initial situation is much better indeed. But to redescribe one issue I already mentioned above... I took the time and found a map containing all 40 levels in the game. Besides normal tiles and the goal tile, there are several other types, where I've put the unclear points in parenthesis:

I think I may have made it to about level 15 so far. The thing is, I don't even get much time to play it.

- there are two types of switches, soft and hard, which make tiles appear and disappear (but which ones?),

Soft switches the tile can have the block land on it anyhow and it works. Hard switches require the block to be on its end on top of it. These are usually to get to the next level.

- there are splitter tiles which will cause the block to be split in two, each cube then being teleported to a different point in the level (but to where?),

The one that I have seen involves the block starting off on a square above a square. When it lands on the teleport it goes to the square below and is split into two halves. It is possible to toggle between which half you wish to move, but the aim is to get the first half into such a position that when joined by the second half it is possible to move onto the hard switch to the next level in one move. This is harder than it sounds, get it wrong, and the block will never fit end on onto the hard switch.

- glass tiles which don't withstand the block standing upright on them,

They break, life lost.

- broken tiles which can be moved over only once, and

After that they disappear.

- teleport tiles which move the upright block to a new location on the level (but, again, to where?)

I think this depends on the level. Sometimes they are split, other times not. Sometimes it might be helpful, sometimes maybe it's not. It could be fun to mix it up a bit.

If these issues are all solved - preferably without having to play through the entire game -, then the next steps could involve redesigning the graphics for the VIC-20.

Sounds like I'd better get my Spectrum out and try to get through some more levels! I could always contact the author of the game itself.

Both computers are capable of outputting digi sounds through the volume registers.

Well the music and sounds on this particular spectrum game are quite remarkable, especially when you consider that it only uses the Z80, no use is made of the AY 38912 in a 128K Spectrum. The chap that wrote the music (Dr Beep I think) did really well with it. I think I'm getting a bit confused. I thought a non AY Spectrum was limited to one voice, and the VIC has three voices plus white noise?

If I had the time, and I could program, I'd probably have a go at this myself, but since I haven't, I thought I'd see if anybody else thought it would be fun.

[16KVIC20]

Update: I have contacted the author of the ZX Spectrum version. I think he is Sinclair only, but we'll see what he says.

[16KVIC20]

FURTHER UPDATE:

Well I've heard back from the author of the Spectrum Version. He doesn't have the time to do it, as he has many ZX81 and Spectrum projects on the go. What we do have though is an offer of help with information from him if somebody else wants to have a go.

Apparently there was somebody trying to convert it to the Atari 800, but I got the impression he thinks that may have fizzled out.

Would be good if the VIC had a version before the Atari.

[Mike]

Well the music and sounds on this particular spectrum game are quite remarkable, especially when you consider that it only uses the Z80, no use is made of the AY 38912 in a 128K Spectrum. The chap that wrote the music (Dr Beep I think) did really well with it. I think I'm getting a bit confused. I thought a non AY Spectrum was limited to one voice, and the VIC has three voices plus white noise?

Those are limitations only if you keep yourself to the exact wording of the data sheets.

Given a high enough sample rate, even a 1-bit signal can reproduce an arbitrary waveform when it is low-pass filtered. This is used in the Sigma-Delta-Modulator. The VIC chip allows for a 4-bit amplitude (16 distinct levels), which allows for medium sample rate (e.g. ~6 kHz) and tolerable noise floor to emulate the SID sound chip of the C64! Here's the corresponding thread, 'Sid Vicious - VIC 20 SID emulation', and an example tune I ported to this emulator, 'Cybernoid II'.

Well I've heard back from the author of the Spectrum Version. He doesn't have the time to do it, as he has many ZX81 and Spectrum projects on the go. What we do have though is an offer of help with information from him if somebody else wants to have a go.

Did you point him to this thread here?

If the author would provide the level data and the rules for the special tiles (those which cannot be inferred in an obvious way, such as the teleport positions), this would help alot for a good port.

I found the solutions for all 40 levels in a hint-book, so it is even possible to test all levels automatically before they are complemented with new display routines for the VIC-20.