Final Expansion :: 512KB SRAM + 512KB EEPROM + SD Card (2GB)

gklinger · Post by **gklinger** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 6:50 am

Diddl is giving the price of the SRAM chip so I reckoned he might have an idea of overall cost.

dragos · Post by **dragos** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 11:16 am

here is a new Cartridge coming for our VIC-20, the Final Expansion v3.

I would infer from that that someone IS going to make them available, otherwise I would expect it to say, "here is a design YOU may or may not be capable of making"

Diddl · Post by **Diddl** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 1:28 pm

I'm Programmer and don't make Hardware. But I'm sure someone in Forum64 will do a omnibus order to reduce the cost for a single cartridge.

Usually it will be a kit (printed circuit board, with or without the electrical components).

Maybe Nils (For(;; ) from Forum64) makes the job to distribute the kits. Maybe it would make sense to have an other person in USA to reduce costs. Depends on the number of interested people.

Nils recently delivered some XS-1541 kits (an older project of mine) and he did a very good job with minimal costs: click

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We don't have calculated the costs of a Final Expansion kit for now. But I think it should be possible within 40 Euro (about 56 $), I'am not sure.

The costs of the PCB: 10€
Controller Atmega 644: ~7€
Memory Chips: ~7€
Atmel CPLD 1504: 6€
Some other small parts: ??
Delivery costs: ??

The costs of the PCB reduces with higher number of pieces. So it makes sense to send it to USA. The other parts are maybe cheaper in USA, if someone of you can program it?

Pedro Lambrini · Post by **Pedro Lambrini** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 2:02 pm

Maybe we should give Eslapion a nudge and see what he's up to...

Diddl · Post by **Diddl** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 2:31 pm

My try of a english version of the FE homepage is up. Hope it is readable for you and doesn't have too much spelling mistakes: click

gklinger · Post by **gklinger** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 2:44 pm

Diddl wrote:We don't have calculated the costs of a Final Expansion kit for now. But I think it should be possible within 40 Euro (about 56 $), I'am not sure.

I would gladly pay €40 for such a cartridge and I wouldn't be put off even if the price ended up being €60. I sure hope someone makes these.

My try of a english version of the FE homepage is up. Hope it is readable for you and doesn't have too much spelling mistakes: click

Thanks for doing that.

bokvamme · Post by **bokvamme** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 3:09 pm

Please let us know if and when it's available to order.

Post by **Jeff-20** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 6:36 pm

Wait, this whole thread confuses me. I'm going to try to read it again and see if I understand.

gklinger · Post by **gklinger** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 7:32 pm

Jeff-20 wrote:Wait, this whole thread confuses me.

How so?

amramsey · Post by **amramsey** » Fri Jun 12, 2009 4:08 am

Ha ha! I too have been working behind the scenes with Jim Brain on a 'final expansion' type of unit. The one that I'm working on has banked ram (128k, because you can't really buy anything smaller), SDcard interface (up to 32G), ethernet port, stereo audio, IEC bus (basically a uIEC although could be used for anything else), userport interface to emulate interfaces like rs232 cards, and two co-processors (AVR microcontroller and FPGA). Schematics are just about finished.

It seems that the Vic-20 is starting to get alot of interest from hardware guys.

carlsson · Post by **carlsson** » Fri Jun 12, 2009 5:07 am

Stereo what, SID or VIC-I sound? Ethernet sounds great, that is a feature the Germans should add to their card as well. Ideally you all should stick to the same type of controller chip and I/O addressing.

Diddl · Post by **Diddl** » Fri Jun 12, 2009 6:06 am

carlsson wrote:Stereo what, SID or VIC-I sound? Ethernet sounds great, that is a feature the Germans should add to their card as well. Ideally you all should stick to the same type of controller chip and I/O addressing.

Hardware design of Final Expansion v3 is finished, firmware is 70% finished. In release v3 we don't change anything.

But Ethernet sounds really great! Maybe a v4 feature ...

And I don't think a SID would make sense. A VIC with 40 column and SID, - if you really want this, it would be better to take a C-64. A SID alone, there is no software for this hardware.

A Final Expansion is like a MMC Replay for the C-64. Much SRAM and EEPROM and a SD card. And compatible to any VIC-20 software.

amramsey wrote:Ha ha! I too have been working behind the scenes with Jim Brain on a 'final expansion' type of unit. The one that I'm working on has banked ram (128k, because you can't really buy anything smaller), SDcard interface (up to 32G), ethernet port, stereo audio, IEC bus (basically a uIEC although could be used for anything else), userport interface to emulate interfaces like rs232 cards, and two co-processors (AVR microcontroller and FPGA). Schematics are just about finished.

Sounds cool. Maybe I want to buy one after it is finished.

matsondawson · Post by **matsondawson** » Fri Jun 12, 2009 6:12 am

amramsey wrote:Ha ha! I too have been working behind the scenes with Jim Brain on a 'final expansion' type of unit. The one that I'm working on has banked ram (128k, because you can't really buy anything smaller), SDcard interface (up to 32G), ethernet port, stereo audio, IEC bus (basically a uIEC although could be used for anything else), userport interface to emulate interfaces like rs232 cards, and two co-processors (AVR microcontroller and FPGA). Schematics are just about finished.

It seems that the Vic-20 is starting to get alot of interest from hardware guys.

Crap, you too? Why an FPGA?

carlsson · Post by **carlsson** » Fri Jun 12, 2009 6:16 am

There is no software that uses 512K RAM (*) or Ethernet (**) neither.. not right now, but perhaps in the future.

An additional sound- or video chip may spur development, in particular if you can use it in combination with the built-in hardware.

(*) I gather a fast SRAM/EEPROM disk would be useful e.g. for TNT's Z-machine interpreter.

(**) Ok, perhaps Contiki v1.X finally can be completed once there is a standard Ethernet interface as well as a bit more memory, in particular if it somehow could be mapped on top of ROM but I suppose this is not technically possible from within the cartridge port.

Pedro Lambrini · Post by **Pedro Lambrini** » Fri Jun 12, 2009 11:13 am

Very exciting! Amramsey's thingy sounds great as well. It's interesting to see what the hardware dudes come up with. I wouldn't know where to begin with this stuff.

My fear is, though, that all this effort and development will go for nothing unless some software dudes start working alongside the hardware lot and make something useful at launch as it were...

I mean look at the debates that have gone before about releasing games on disc or not or Ghislain using 32k for ROQ III etc just because it's not regarded as 'retro Vic'. Some games that could really benefit from more RAM have been crippled, in my view, just because it's not the Vic way. Sorry for sounding a little ranty I'm just trying to convey my point clearly.

And my point is - it would be a shame for this hardware to come around and for it just to gather dust...