Denial

I have searched the threads, but I'm just not getting it, and maybe I need a superior intellect to help me put the pieces together.

I hardly see "Vic-20" monitor cables. I understand it's not "split composite" or S-video - just composite. I see monitor cables that claim to be for C64 and Vic-20 on Ebay. I've read that *old* (rare) C64s didn't have split composite and that THESE are the C64s that had the same monitor port. These had to be few and long, long ago. Yet I still see ads for monitor cables that work with both. So does this mean that if you have a regular composite cable, it will work on Vic 20, old C64 and new C64 (reg.composite)? **OR** has the C64 monitor port evolved from then and absolutely lost compatibility?

I see monitor cables that advertise they work on Atari 800, C64, and TI 99/4A. I don't see Vic-20 on the packaging (decades old, mind you) So this tells me the Atari and C64 are the same, so if an Atari cable will work on a C64 should it not on a Vic-20? I see Ebay seller now who claim to sell one that works on everything and VIC, but they're not too assertive But, some Atari computers (original 800, XE series) **DO** have split composite, as does the (most/recent) C64. Those same Ataris (of course) still have "regular" composite on the port, and of course a "regular" composite cable can be used on them. For some bonehead reason, the Atari 800XL/1200XL do NOT have split composite, so this is the only cable that can be used on them (not counting mods).

Ok, so if I (think) I understand this, a split composite (or Svid) cable will work on those Ataris that have it, as well as most C64s.

And, am I to deduce that any regular composite cable will work on ALL Ataris, and C64 and Vic-20, right? (I guess we'll leave the TI 99/4A out of this one). I'd like to believe this, but I see a +5v on the VIC-20 pinout, presumably to power the RF mod? I've never seen this on any other port. The makes me skeptical (what would that do to my monitor?), and afraid to try an Atari (regular) composite cable on a VIC. Failing all of this, where are *actual* certifiable VIC-20 cables sold? Any thoughts appreciated!

The video cable with a 5-pin DIN plug at the computer end will work on the VIC-20 and all C64 models. It provides composite video. The 8-pin DIN plug version will only work on the later models C64, the C128, and the Plus/4.

I don't know which cables will work on the Atari, TI, or other computers.

I haven't researched the Ataris very much, but I thought the support of S-Video was rather sketchy. Just like Bacon writes, all those cables with a 5-pin DIN will usually work with anything from that range, including a TI-99/4A but not a TI-99/4 if I understood correctly. Besides the TI has +12V to power its RF modulator, on the same pin the VIC has +5V IIRC.

I have successfully used one and the same 5-pin DIN composite video cable with my VIC-20, C64, C128 (?), CBM 610 (sound disabled), Atari 800XL and 130XE. If I owned a Spectravideo SVI-318/328, I believe the cable would fit that machine too.

Somewhere I read the particular 5-pin DIN pinout for composite video + audio + ground used by all those computers is known as an American Standard. Whether it is an ASCII or IEEE defined standard or just a coincidence (everyone copying what Atari did, just like the joystick ports), I don't know. Furthermore I don't know if it is possible to patent the way you're using different pins within an already existing connector?

Another alternative is to do the S-video mod to your VIC-20. I'm planning on doing it this weekend or next and I'm going to change the video connector to the same 8-pin DIN used on the 64 so I can use the same cables. I have a bunch that provide S-video, composite on RCA and mono audio on RCA. I'm big on having my VIC-20 and 64s use the same video cables and power supplies to keep life simple and reduce clutter.

Thanks very much for this information.

I looked on an Atari that *does* have split composite, and it still only has 5 pins!

So I guess that means the Atari 8-bit/Commdore 64 cable compatibility is limited to "regular" composite cables, since the C64 has more pins to do the split composite.

Aaaargh. Well, good enough, then. I have an Atari-Svideo cable (somewhere) that I was planning to plug into C64 on my nice TV. Guess I won't bother looking for it, then, and look for a C64 S-video cable then.

@ gklinger: I saw a thread on here about adding Svid to the Vic and it looks great! With my hamfisted soldering skills, I unfortunately wouldn't want to risk ruining the machine.

TI and the VIC20 are almost the same, just a different voltage for the modulator as someone already noted. Atari had the modulators built into their machines, so they didn't have a need to supply power on the 5 pin DIN. After the composit video, audio, and ground, this left two pins that they used for S-video. If you are just using composit video and audio, the same cable with work on the TI99, the Atari, the VIC20, and the C64/128 just fine.

@dano: Thanks for the clarification. I should have thought about there being enough pins on the Ataris since they have no power requirement.

Looks like finding a Vic composite cable won't be so tough, after all.

I don't know how typical TV sets in the USA were configured in the mid 1980's, but to me it would appear less common to have a display that accepts anything else than RF input. At least until all those composite monitors became popular and inexpensive enough. Eventually TVs also began to include more inputs, for example here in Europe it appears Philips were promoting the SCART contact strongly in 1984 which tells me it was still far from given to find one.

Unfortunatly even in the earily 90s it was uncommon to have a TV with anything but RF in. I wish we had something like SCART here, not only for home computer use, but VCRs and laserdisc players of that era too.

The Wikipedia article says the SCART connector first appeared on French TV sets in 1977, and became compulsory already in 1980! In the USA, it is sometimes known as an EIA Multiport.

I'm not sure how many French manufacturers of radios and TV sets there were, i.e. how many members the Syndicat des Constructeurs d'Appareils Radiorécepteurs et Téléviseurs actually had, but I presume they collectively held the patent. Perhaps they asked a lot of money for foreign manufacturers to use the connector, as it meant a competition advantage for the French companies.

It could also be that manufacturers and customers in the NTSC regions didn't think a common connector like this was needed. The article says a few different DIN and Phono type standards were floating around. The SCART connector also has some weaknesses like quite easily falling out, no Dolby support and perhaps more features customers would expect.

Just bought a VIC 20 A/V cable and hooked it up directly to the composite RCA inputs -- looks great on my 27" Zenith TV!

A/V cable,Atari,Commodore,Vic20,64,c64,128, Ti99/4a,TV

I also got a Commodore S-video cable,c64,128,Monitor,A/V,64,video and the C64 video signal is spectacular!

Yes you want the cable for the Atari 800 XL XE. It is a 5 pin DIN and will work on all systems even the new C64's! But the quality will be inferior of course (for the newer C64) but perfectly fine for the Atari, Vic 20, etc.