Denial

So chysn's thread on cartridges (here) reminded me that I used to have the Synthesound cartridge from HES for my VIC-20. I thought I would give it another look but the image that is posted on Zimmers just produces garbage on my screen. Is there a trick to getting this to run?

mathom wrote: ↑Thu Aug 24, 2023 4:26 pm So chysn's thread on cartridges (here) reminded me that I used to have the Synthesound cartridge from HES for my VIC-20. I thought I would give it another look but the image that is posted on Zimmers just produces garbage on my screen. Is there a trick to getting this to run?

My method for getting Synthesound to work was that I burned the ROM image onto a 2764A and installed it into an old Visible Solar System PCB.

When I try to run the unmodified Zimmers PRG on VICE, I get what you're probably getting, garbage on the screen. It likely needs to be run in ROM instead of RAM at $A000. I created a cartridge image (using cartconv) and attached it here. UnZIP it, then do File > Attach cartridge image... in an unexpanded VICE. It seems to work okay, but I haven't taken it through all its paces.

I can't really figure out how to use it, though. It seems to lock up when I enter editing, and I'm not sure how to make any changes. I think my hardware cartridge works, but I'll have to play around with it. I've got thunderstorms coming through tonight, so my VIC and 1702 are unplugged until the morning, but I'll check it out when I can...

I'm not sure if my cart on PCB is working or not. When I first press F1, I can play notes with the keyboard. Space apparently takes me to an editing system, in which Enter advances to the next parameter from left to right. I can make changes with the cursor keys.

But... I can't figure out how to get OUT of this editing mode and back to the keyboard to listen to the changes I've made. Space doesn't do it, and Enter just goes back to the beginning. How does this work? And what do those circles with 1-20 on the bottom of the screen mean?

I cannot find a PDF manual for this thing online. This is an interface made by somebody on a deadline!

Update: OK, to get out of edit mode, you have to press Space at exactly the right time, once you've Entered off the last parameter (release of env 4). If you take a parameter out of range, it might crash. If you press keys too fast, it might crash. If you make a concerned expression at it, it might crash. It's a real crash-o-saurus. But, when it works, it makes kind of cool sounds. I prefer turning knobs on my Prophet 5.

Wow! Thank you for doing all that. Seems that "unexpanded" is the critical thing here. That got it working for me. I found a manual for it at https://ia801502.us.archive.org/22/item ... 9_text.pdf

Here's the manual. It's on archive.org

Appreciate the manual links, guys.

I found your problem as to why you are getting "garbage" with Synthesound. Synthesound is ONLY meant to run in UNEXPANDED VIC or 3K Memory modes.... Run it in any other Memory mode, and all you will get is trash! It was incorrectly listed on Zimmer's as running in 8k memory mode which is highly incorrect!....lol.....You're Welcome... Tony K.

nefaurora wrote:[Synthesound] was incorrectly listed on Zimmer's as running in 8k memory mode which is highly incorrect!

For the ROM dumps on zimmers, the given size info states the size of the ROMs themselves, which is not related in any way to any amount of RAM expansion supposed to be there.

There are only a few cartridges like Super Expander and some other utility cartridges where extra RAM is a supported use case. All contemporary game cartridges assume (and can do rightfully so!) that there is no extra RAM present. Some game cartridges unfortunately fall over any extra RAM present: Bug Crusher is known for this, and this issue had been covered here in Denial already ages ago. In those times however, this scenario had only been relevant for users of a cartridge extender, when the user operated a +8K (or bigger) RAM expansion cartridge alongside a game cartridge by mistake.

Just in case you are looking for an easier to use PRG for Synthesound, the fixed dump can be found here:

https://files.vic20reloaded.com/util/synthesound

mimmosic wrote: ↑Tue Jan 14, 2025 8:30 am Just in case you are looking for an easier to use PRG for Synthesound, the fixed dump can be found here:

https://files.vic20reloaded.com/util/synthesound

Oh, that is nice!

Thanks!
Robert Bernardo
Fresno Commodore User Group - http://www.dickestel.com/fcug.htm
Southern California Commodore & Amiga Network - http://www.portcommodore.com/sccan

I have one more question: Is there a way to save my finished music?

There is no mention in the instruction manual of saving a composition.

Truly,
Robert Bernardo
Fresno Commodore User Group - http://www.dickestel.com/fcug.htm
Southern California Commodore & Amiga Network - http://www.portcommodore.com/sccan
April 26-27 Commodore Los Angeles Super Show 2025 - http://www.portcommodore.com/sccan

RobertBe wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 5:45 pm There is no mention in the instruction manual of saving a composition.

Truly,
Robert Bernardo
Fresno Commodore User Group - http://www.dickestel.com/fcug.htm
Southern California Commodore & Amiga Network - http://www.portcommodore.com/sccan
April 26-27 Commodore Los Angeles Super Show 2025 - http://www.portcommodore.com/sccan

It's a pity that you can't save, but still a great program. Thank you