In what year did you get your first VIC-20?

orion70 · Post by **orion70** » Mon Oct 31, 2011 4:37 am

I agree with you, although I wonder how many VICs will still be working when your niece will be 20

. One of my fears is to be forced to switch to VICE because all my computers will eventually fail and the few remaining on sale will be too expensive.

16KVIC20 · Post by **16KVIC20** » Mon Oct 31, 2011 6:15 am

That is indeed a concern. I am hoping to teach myself some soldering and electronics skills, so that maybe I will be able to carry out more repairs than I currently can. The problem is that 1980s era home computers weren't ever intended to be user serviceable in the way that a modern PC is.

I have to say that my boys (5 & 9) both love our VIC 20 and are always excited when I set it up. They also love the Spectrums and our C64 (in fact I think that is my 9 year old's favourite). They are very excited with the prospect of the Mega Cart arriving soon.

For me though, every time I see

***CBM Basic V2***
3583 Bytes Free
Ready.

a little part of me is transported back to the early 1980s and the excitement of what will happen next, in a way that does not happen when I see:

(c) 1982 Sinclair Research Ltd

Nothing against the Spectrum, I love it, but it wasn't my first computer, so I think it was less magical for me.

Spectrum · Post by **Spectrum** » Mon Oct 31, 2011 6:41 am

Right.

Both of you.

I don't know what will happen, but who knows?
There are still a lot of clubs about Classic Cars and many people enjoy to collect them. And there are people who repairs them as a job. Who knows if this is the future for retrocomputers as well?

Although I love the Speccy (as my nickname plainly reveal) the Vic was my first computer too, and its "magic" is still so amazingly powerful on me.

ral-clan · Post by **ral-clan** » Mon Oct 31, 2011 8:52 am

16KVIC20 wrote:That is indeed a concern. I am hoping to teach myself some soldering and electronics skills, so that maybe I will be able to carry out more repairs than I currently can. The problem is that 1980s era home computers weren't ever intended to be user serviceable in the way that a modern PC is.

I would have to disagree with this. The VIC is a much simpler computer with larger circuit board traces. through-hole soldering, socketed chips and components that you can actually maneuver and solder by hand. The VIC has simple enough architecture that a single human mind can more or less understand what is going on at any point on the motherboard.

Today's PC's have microscopic fragile components with multi-layer circuit boards and surface mounted soldering. It almost takes a design team to understand what is really going on in any part of PC circuit board. Much of it can only be serviced with specialized machinery.

So I would argue that the VIC-20 is much more user serviceable than a modern PC.

Modern PC's don't seem to be made to be serviceable. Broken drives, CPUs, power supplies, etc. are just swapped out for new ones.

Spectrum · Post by **Spectrum** » Mon Oct 31, 2011 9:22 am

Thank you, Ral-clan, for your explanation!!!
I really enjoyed it, and it gave me more hopes about the life-span of my Friendly Computer!

16KVIC20 · Post by **16KVIC20** » Mon Oct 31, 2011 9:46 am

ral-clan wrote: I would have to disagree with this. The VIC is a much simpler computer with larger circuit board traces. through-hole soldering, socketed chips and components that you can actually maneuver and solder by hand. The VIC has simple enough architecture that a single human mind can more or less understand what is going on at any point on the motherboard.

Today's PC's have microscopic fragile components with multi-layer circuit boards and surface mounted soldering. It almost takes a design team to understand what is really going on in any part of PC circuit board. Much of it can only be serviced with specialized machinery.

So I would argue that the VIC-20 is much more user serviceable than a modern PC.

Modern PC's don't seem to be made to be serviceable. Broken drives, CPUs, power supplies, etc. are just swapped out for new ones.

OK, I can see that point of view. What I meant about the user serviceability of a modern PC was the ability to swap stuff over so easily. I agree that it is possible to work out what the components in a VIC do, but for me,who is no good with a soldering iron, a modern PC is somewhat easier in terms of swapping bits over to fix it.

tokra · Post by **tokra** » Mon Oct 31, 2011 2:37 pm

I came to the VIC pretty late in May, 1985. My older brother got a C64 with Floppy Drive for Christmas '84 (well, most came out of his own paperboy-money), and because I wanted my own computer, I scrapped together what I had and got a VIC-20 + 1530 tape drive. It would have cost 199,- DM back then, but they had no new ones in stock anymore, so for 20,- DM less I took it the exhibition piece home for 179,- DM. The tape drive cost 129,- DM by itself (ouch!).

Later that year - I think September - I got a 16K expansion for 169,- DM. There were 32K/27K expanders available for less, but I was afraid, they would not be compatible to the "original" Commodore one. Stupid mistake. Especially when a schoolmate showed me his tape-copies of (cracked) Arcade games, which I could not play since I had bought the wrong expansion

I kept using my VIC until November 1986 when I got my C128D. In 1987 my C128 went for repairs for more than 6 weeks, which is like an eternity when you're 14 so I had some more VIC-time then. I always occasionally turned to my VIC and in the early nineties got some carts and a 3K Super Expander dirt cheap (for 1 to 5 DM) in an overstock sale.

Good times!

grimm · Post by **grimm** » Mon Oct 31, 2011 5:51 pm

My first computer was a TS1000 as a Christmas present in 1982. It was fun and all but with all the flakiness of the memory expansion, etc. I wanted some thing better. The Vic came on Christmas 1983 and it was so cool. Although I had to use a B/W TV at first, it was either that or wait for the family TV to open up.

Later I was able to get a small color TV and actually finished "The Count" adventure game along with a whole lot of programming. Once I heard about the C64 I had to get that too, although my parents didn't quite understand the whole computer upgrade thing. They basically said to me, "You have two computers already, you don't need any more". So I ended up selling the Vic (I knew that I wouldn't be able to get any money for the TS1000) and used the money to buy a C64 and a disk drive.

Currently I have three Vic20's and two of them work great (I also have a working TS1000).

Now if I could only find a working C64.

RJBowman · Post by **RJBowman** » Mon Oct 31, 2011 8:24 pm

I got my first VIC-20 very early; probably '81. My little brother and I had saved up about half the cost of the machine, and my dad took us to Highland Appliance in South Bend Indiana, and contributed the remaining cost.

We had no datasette for the first week or two; we experimented with the little sample programs in the user's guide, and made modifications, and turned the machine off when we were done.

I would later move up the the '64, but I never knew the '64 like I knew the VIC-20. I haven't touched the machine in a quarter century, but I still remember that register 36879 controls the background and border colors. The C-64 could do more complex things, but I had to consult the reference guide to do anything.

16KVIC20 · Post by **16KVIC20** » Tue Nov 01, 2011 4:41 am

36879,8 is the one that nearly everybody seems to remember. I certainly have never forgotten it, along with 36879,27.

16KVIC20 · Post by **16KVIC20** » Tue Nov 01, 2011 4:43 am

grimm wrote:My first computer was a TS1000 as a Christmas present in 1982. It was fun and all but with all the flakiness of the memory expansion, etc. I wanted some thing better. The Vic came on Christmas 1983 and it was so cool. Although I had to use a B/W TV at first, it was either that or wait for the family TV to open up. Later I was able to get a small color TV and actually finished "The Count" adventure game along with a whole lot of programming. Once I heard about the C64 I had to get that too, although my parents didn't quite understand the whole computer upgrade thing. They basically said to me, "You have two computers already, you don't need any more". So I ended up selling the Vic (I knew that I wouldn't be able to get any money for the TS1000) and used the money to buy a C64 and a disk drive.

Currently I have three Vic20's and two of them work great (I also have a working TS1000). Now if I could only find a working C64.

There should be enough working C64s to go round. 17 million of them were made! I recently got one on ebay, working, with tape deck and a $hitoon of games for £36 including postage. I paid a little more as I wanted proof that it worked.

grimm · Post by **grimm** » Tue Nov 01, 2011 2:00 pm

16KVIC20 wrote: There should be enough working C64s to go round. 17 million of them were made! I recently got one on ebay, working, with tape deck and a $hitoon of games for £36 including postage. I paid a little more as I wanted proof that it worked.

You would think so, but all of the ones I have seen on Ebay have been getting snatched up real quickly. Even the untested ones are going for $40 to $50 US. I'm worried that they are starting to die now for some reason (or reasons?). As there are so few people who repair them any more,others are picking up the few good ones that come up to replace their broken ones. One of mine I picked up had pictures of it working but, by the time I got it, it was DOA. Even one of the guys I have purchased older systems from said that all of the C64's that come across his counter are dead. He very rarely sees good ones any more. It's not a trend I like to see.

16KVIC20 · Post by **16KVIC20** » Tue Nov 01, 2011 2:11 pm

That's a shame. Could some of them be suffering from Chips not being seated properly in sockets? Most likely if not is capacitors reaching the end of their life I suppose. Also if no picture, it's worth trying from another source, ie if nothing from RF, try the video socket and vice versa. I have also heard that SID chips are easy to break (not sure how though).

I suppose they are coming to an age when they will die off now. A good VIC 20 is now quite hard to find, I bought one earlier in the year, and it took a good couple of months to find just the right one. Only 2 Million VICs were made, in comparison. I suppose the thing to hope for is one that hasn't been worked too hard.

Commodore equipment isn't the only to have these sorts of problems, ZX Spectrums are just as bad, if not worse.

FD22 · Post by **FD22** » Tue Nov 01, 2011 6:04 pm

Spectrum wrote:OT: By the way, what's a BUTI+ cart?

It was a Programmers' Aid cart, featuring a huge bunch of utilities (Basic UTIlities) like Trace, Renumber, and lots of others I forget. It also had a kick-ass machine code monitor built-in which featured a fast assembler/disassembler and a range of 6502 coding tools. I seem to recall it had a 3K RAM expansion as part of the deal too.

It was a 'squared-off' cart rather than the standard slimmer type, coloured a brownish tan, with a large label on it. I can't remember who made it, but it featured prominently in adverts in UK micro mags of the time. This cart, together with the Stack Electronics 4-slot mobo with 16K switchable RAM, never left my VIC after I hooked them up the first time. I would pay any price to have them again.

Google shows zero hits.

rhurst · Post by **rhurst** » Tue Nov 01, 2011 6:29 pm

I probably already answered this, 1982.

FD22 wrote:I would pay any price to have them again.

I would pay any price to go back to 1982... and with a copy of my Quikman+ to play on my original VIC 20 and B&W sportable TV, because I just knew it could be done and play like it does; and being 16 going on 17, I would be playing it, like, 10-hours a day while bunking high school.

Why did we have to grow up? Sigh.