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Re: Sargon II Chess
Posted: Sat May 09, 2015 9:31 am
by 16KVIC20
Never even heard of BOSS. Was it tape or cartridge?
I think I have just amply proved that Sargon II is quite hard enough!
Re: Sargon II Chess
Posted: Sat May 09, 2015 11:28 am
by Jeff-20
I love these kind of experiments. It makes me want to test smaller programs. Maybe Atari 2600 chess. Or Atari checkers vs activision checkers.
Sent from my phizzone
Re: Sargon II Chess
Posted: Sat May 09, 2015 2:20 pm
by 16KVIC20
That's a point. I have an Atari Flashback 3, I wonder if the VCS/2600 chess program is on there. I'm going to check.
Hey, game number 56, Video Chess. Looks like it's the VIC Vs the 2600 next!
Re: Sargon II Chess
Posted: Sun May 10, 2015 3:51 am
by Boray
Here is boss 1.5:
www.boray.se/gammon/boss15.tap
Requires 8K expansion.
I think you set the skill level by typing S1.... to S9.
Re: Sargon II Chess
Posted: Sun May 10, 2015 1:00 pm
by cercamon
Boss is actually a strong opponent. I wanted to try Sargon II and I have found the cartridge image in TOSEC archive.
It starts on VICE but always crashes with Jammmed CPU at $c005 everytime the program has to move.
The file is in the CRT folder and its filename is something like Sargon_II_blah_blah.a0. I've tried loading the cartridge at $A000 or as standard cartridge but the result is always the CPU jam. Any advice?
TIA
Re: Sargon II Chess
Posted: Sun May 10, 2015 1:01 pm
by 16KVIC20
OK, thanks Boray. I read something about BOSS today which indicated that there is only one skill level. Surely that can't be right?
I'll certainly be giving it a go over the next few days. If Dragon 32 manages to outwit Sargon II, it will be good to have a reserve in the tank!
Re: Sargon II Chess
Posted: Sun May 10, 2015 1:03 pm
by 16KVIC20
cercamon wrote:Boss is actually a strong opponent. I wanted to try Sargon II and I have found the cartridge image in TOSEC archive.
It starts on VICE but always crashes with Jammmed CPU at $c005 everytime the program has to move.
The file is in the CRT folder and its filename is something like Sargon_II_blah_blah.a0. I've tried loading the cartridge at $A000 or as standard cartridge but the result is always the CPU jam. Any advice?
TIA
That's a shame Cercamonn. Hopefully one of the technical types around here may now how to fix it for you.
I've never tried BOSS, but for me Sargon II at level 0 has kept me busy these past 33 years!
Re: Sargon II Chess
Posted: Sun May 10, 2015 1:05 pm
by Boray
16KVIC20 wrote:OK, thanks Boray. I read something about BOSS today which indicated that there is only one skill level. Surely that can't be right?
No, as I wrote, type S followed by a number to change skill level. I think you can do this anytime during the game when it's your move.
Re: Sargon II Chess
Posted: Sun May 10, 2015 1:14 pm
by 16KVIC20
Clearly whoever wrote that on the web page I saw was either without the instructions or ignorant of them.
So who does anybody fancy as the winner between VIC 20 Sargon II Chess and Dragon 32 Cyrus II Chess?
I must admit, I feel a traitor suggesting it, but my money is on the Dragon. I hope to be proven wrong.
Re: Sargon II Chess
Posted: Sun May 10, 2015 1:18 pm
by cercamon
Boss actually is quite identical to the first chess program I have ever seen. It was called simply Chess and it ran on my C64.
I'm sure I still have the .prg for the C64 somewhere on my hard disk. I always sought a manual for this program and I bet that commands like S1..S9 work on that version too. And yes, 16KVIC20 you have certainly proven your point (wow, 33 years!, that's what I call perseverance!)... I just would add my two cents to your thesis... so now I really would like to try Sargon II...
Re: Sargon II Chess
Posted: Sun May 10, 2015 1:24 pm
by 16KVIC20
Well Cercamon, as for the 33 Year claim, that is a little bit of a stretch to be totally honest.
I bought the Cartridge in 1982, we got rid of our VIC 20 in 1987. I didn't get a VIC 20 again on a permanent basis until about 2010. One of the early programs I got was none other than Sargon II. So I suppose really all I can claim is 10 years. I still haven't beaten it though! But then my Chess isn't exactly Grand Master level, but I'm far from being a disaster though.
Re: Sargon II Chess
Posted: Sun May 10, 2015 1:36 pm
by cercamon
Thanks for telling your story with the Vic-20 and Sargon II, always nice to read others' experiences.
As for beating Sargon II, I am not a GM level, not even "M", to say the truth, but I like to play humans online and computers, especially the old programs of every platform. Maybe we should join forces and try to smash Sargon II, at least level 0...
Re: Sargon II Chess
Posted: Mon May 11, 2015 9:53 am
by 16KVIC20
I have them interested over on the Dragon forum.
The consensus seems to be that the Dragon/Cyrus will probably win, but we shall see! I think it probably will, but I always like to support the underdog, especially when it happens to be the friendly computer!
Re: Sargon II Chess
Posted: Tue May 12, 2015 8:13 am
by 16KVIC20
Well I just played a marathon session of Sargon II in the VIC 20 Corner Vs Cyrus Chess in the Dragon 32 Corner!
The first game had Sargon II on Level 0 and Cyrus on Level 1, so that is each game's opening level. It's worth remembering that Sargon II has 7 levels compared with Cyrus's 9 levels. On both games, the highest level takes so long to play that you may well burn out the PSU, if not your patience!
The first game was very long, I would say that Cyrus definitely had the upper hand throughout, but Sargon defended admirably. Unfortunately the game did not get through to its conclusion as towards the end I entered a move incorrectly into Sargon II, and I'm not sure if a move can be undone in that program. Cyrus had reduced Sargon to just its King left (I think), whereas Cyrus had King, plus two queens and a pawn (maybe even a knight)
I'm quite sure it would have ended with Sargon Checkmated by Cyrus.
I then cranked Sargon II up to level 1 and left Cyrus on level 1. In this game Sargon II performed far better, and seemed to have the upper hand. Sargon II check mated Cyrus in 31 moves.
Sargon II played white in both games. Game notation to follow when I have a bit more time. Also more games to be played. I would like to see Cyrus play White for instance as well.
Sargon II takes far longer to think about each move in Level 1 than Cyrus does, maybe somewhere between a minute and two minutes.
Very interesting so far though; well at least I think so!
Re: Sargon II Chess
Posted: Tue May 12, 2015 3:37 pm
by 16KVIC20
As promised the game play notes for Game 1. Unfortunately VIC was run a little bit ragged in this one and I believe it would have been check mated very soon had I not mucked up the move!
Code: Select all
VIC 20 Sargon II Vs Dragon 32 Cyrus Chess
VIC 20 Plays White Pieces
Dragon 32 Plays Black Pieces
1
E2 – E4
E7 – E5
2
G1 – F3
B8 – C6
3
F1 – B5
A7 – A6
4
B5 – C4
B7 – B5
5
C4 – D5
F8 – B4
6
C2 – C3
B4 – C5
7
F3 X E5
C5 X F2 CHECK
8
E1 X F2
D8 – H4 CHECK
9
F2 – E3
H4 – G5 CHECK
10
E3 – F3
C6 X E5 CHECK
11
F3 – F2
C7 – C6
12
D5 – B3
G5 – F4 CHECK
13
F2 – E2
F4 X E4 CHECK
14
E2 – F2
D2 – D5
15
D2 – D4
C8 – G4
16
D1 – D2
E5 – D3 CHECK
17
F2 – E3
C6 – C5
18
D2 – E3
D3 X C1
19
E3 X E4 CHECK
D5 X E4
20
H1 X C1
G8 – F6
21
D4 X C5
A8 – C8
22
B1 – D2
O-O-O
23
C5 – C6
F8 – D8
24
C1 – C2
E4 – E3
25
D2 – F3
G4 X F3
26
G2 X F3
A6 – A5
27
C6 – C7
C8 X C7
28
A1 – E1
A5 – A4
29
E1 X E3
A4 X B3
30
A2 X B3
C7 – C8
31
C2 – E2
H7 – H5
32
E3 – E5
C8 – B8
33
G3 – F4
B5 – B4
34
C3 – C4
D8 – D3
35
E2 – E3
D3 – D2
36
E3 – E2
D2 – D3
37
E2 – E3
B8 – D8
38
E3 X D3
D8 X D3
39
E5 – E3
G7 – G5 CHECK
40
F4 X G5
D3 X E3
41
G5 X F6
E3 X F3 CHECK
42
F6 – E5
F3 X B3
43
C4 – C5
B3 X B2
44
H2 – H3
B2 – H2
45
C5 – C6
H2 X H3
46
C6 – C7
H3 – C3
47
E5 – D6
B4 – B3
48
D6 – D7
C3 – D3 CHECK
49
D7 – C6
D3 – C3 CHECK
50
C6 – D6
B3 – B2
51
D6 – D7
B2 – B1 PAWN PROMOTED
52
C7 – C8 CHECK
C3 X C8
53
D7 X D8
B1 – E4
54
C8 – D7
H3 – H4
55
D7 – D6
H4 – H3
56
D6 – C5
H3 – H2
57
C5 – D6
H2 – H1 PAWN PROMOTED
58
D6 – C5
H1 – D1
59
C5 – B5
D1 – D4
60
B5 – A5
D4 – C5 CHECK
61
A5 – B6
Error realised as the move could not be made. I believe the Dragon would have promoted another Pawn and checkmated soon after.