Denial

Hello Beamrider,
I really like the idea of playing back samples stored on the phone.

I haven't really thought about selling these devices because I didn't think that many people would care to buy it. But, if I'd think about it now then what would be the max cost? Parts cost is one thing this doesn't have to be an issue... but considering it requires the bluetooth device, the connector and a small PCB but most certainly a nice case, I hate those bare PCB designs. A device that isn't properly encased is easily damaged. Then it must be put together which isn't a great deal considering the limited amount of parts. But an hour is easily spend. Then it must be packaged in a box so it can be safely shipped. All in all this adds up.
I doubt if it will be worth the effort if you can sell it for not more then €20,- because if it would cost more then not many people would be willing to buy this. To keep the device building costs as low as possible the volumes must go up.

Not many people will be writing programs any more, so there have to be some killer-application to use this device.
We have to consider that the speech functionality is only supported by Scott Adam adventure games of which there are a few.
So there has to be an extra function to make it interesting for a wider public.
Transferring files could be an option, but at 2400bd... it would take approx. 17 seconds to transfer a simple 4k file, which is acceptable.
But faster rates would be preferred, which isn't easy considering that the port isn't really designed to go faster.
The loader routine must already be present in memory, so this will require the user to load it from tape or disk (or the good old type-in-listing) before transfer of data can take place over bluetooth. This doesn't have to be a big issue but must be kept in mind because this prevents it from being a standalone solution or competing with a diskdrive / more modern SD-card based solution.

The most troubling issue I have with modern technology (like phones) is that I don't expect it to last as long as the CBM computers do. Because smartphones will eventually suffer from battery problems, although this can be easily solved with connecting it always to the charger. The VIC-voder doesn't have this problem. It is based around a raspberry pi, and is completely stand alone, not connected to internet or anything else that might enforce a destructive update to it. But then again... it overly expensive and complex for it's task, but I can see it's charm. And those interested in speech on Scott Adam games should certainly give it some thought.

The project you and I build is great for learning how programming app works, and playing with bluetooth and the VIC-20.
I had a lot of fun doing so. And I'm sure you did also. Feel free to use or modify the program I've written.
What I really hope is that others (like you and me) will be inspired by this in some way and get bitten by the development/tinkering bug.

(sorry for the long text... I didn't really mean to make it this long)

Kind regards,
Jan D.

PS: hackaday has posted my project ( http://hackaday.com/2015/02/13/an-adven ... c-20-speak )
PPS: I've also seen your VIC-20 pooyan game on youtube, wow! That is really a great port!

Hi JanD

Yes, you're right, in that you're certainly not going to get rich by making these things. I agree a price of 20-30 EURO is about what the market would sustain. It would be more a matter of gaining satisfaction making the things and offering a service to the comunity whilst also covering your costs and time.

As for potential uses, I think speech and sample playback are the major uses and perhaps online multi-player and high score support to a lesser extent. Even an extra touch interace for Vic games is possible. File transfer is less of an atraction as the sdIEC fills this niche quite well already.

My next project when I get time would have been to try and modify Commodore Gorf to playback the sounds samples as that is something I always missed playing the Vic version. Also, there is a lot of interest in making a Vic-20 implementation of Wizard-of-Wor and that would also benefit from sample playback. Things like this may make the device more attractive, as mentioned above you could add on online high score facility for Vic20/BT enabled games using a simple WebService.

Personally, I think the Vic Voder is too exepensive for its limited use case - I'd be suprprised if anyone has actually bought one? This solution does much more for less. I think most people will have a phone/tablet lying around for the forseeable future.

btw, I can send you my code if you think it would be useful anytime.

Adrian

p.s. - thanks for the compliment about Pooyan..

Hello Adrian,
I totally agree about the vic-voder. You also have a point when you mention "gaining satisfaction making the things" and "offering a service to the community". Making the schematic and source code available isn't of use to many VIC-20 users, some simply don't have the skill or tools to make these devices. So in short, if we want people to use this kind of device then we have to make it for them

I like the idea of adding speech to gorf (I googled for the game watched some videos and now I understand your samples example you posted earlier).
This indeed would be a very nice touch to it, certainly in combination with the high score service.
The touch idea sounds great but I can't immediately visualize a game for it yet, but it certainly has potential.

Kind regards,
Jan Derogee

PS: if you are able to put your code online then I would like to see it. I'm sure I and others can learn from it.

It appeared today on HACKADAY: AN ADVENTURE INTO ANDROID MAKES THE VIC-20 SPEAK

My backlog of classic gaming and computing projects is at least a decade long. I would happily buy one of these in a simple case for 20-30 Euros. So that's 1 potential buyer

Yes, I'd buy one too

beamrider wrote: File transfer is less of an atraction as the sdIEC fills this niche quite well already.

I would like to point out that the sdIEC is much more expensive than the prices you guys are speaking of here; furthermore, from a hardware standpoint, this is simpler for the DIY-er (of which there are many of us!). Personally, even if I didn't buy one (which I may, if I ever can get my VIC working again), I'd love to build one myself.

In other words, for cheapskates like myself, the idea of an inexpensive way to transfer files is appealing.

I would like to buy one if someone will make one. Limited time to build just now.

This cannot act as a substitute for an sdIEC device as it requires a loader program to be loaded first and is also much slower.

beamrider wrote:This cannot act as a substitute for an sdIEC device as it requires a loader program to be loaded first and is also much slower.

That doesn't mean it can't, it just means it's unlikely to appeal to many. For me, it's quite appealing. I can handle typing in a 25-ish line BASIC program pretty easily (for reference, that's exactly what the process is with Chris Baird's RS232 method: http://www.megalextoria.com/forum2/inde ... to=255518&).

taborj wrote:

beamrider wrote:This cannot act as a substitute for an sdIEC device as it requires a loader program to be loaded first and is also much slower.

That doesn't mean it can't, it just means it's unlikely to appeal to many. For me, it's quite appealing. I can handle typing in a 25-ish line BASIC program pretty easily (for reference, that's exactly what the process is with Chris Baird's RS232 method: http://www.megalextoria.com/forum2/inde ... to=255518&).

I still think it's of very limited use as it ocupies valuable memory and thus would also be unable to work with any program that loads into all available RAM (i.e. most of them).

I still think it's of very limited use as it ocupies valuable memory and thus would also be unable to work with any program that loads into all available RAM (i.e. most of them).[/quote]

But not impossible. That's what I take issue with; it's not impossible, however unlikely it's usage would be. Why artificially limit yourself?

But not impossible. That's what I take issue with; it's not impossible, however unlikely it's usage would be. Why artificially limit yourself?

Here is the link to my Android code - please feel free to add this functionality.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BypVxY ... sp=sharing

Here is the link to my Android code - please feel free to add this functionality.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BypVxY ... sp=sharing[/quote]

I'll definitely take a look, though (a) I'm not the best coder, and (b) my VIC is down with a dead VIC chip. There's always VICE, though. I'll go out and order the bluetooth parts today.