Final Expansion :: 512KB SRAM + 512KB EEPROM + SD Card (2GB)

Schema · Post by **Schema** » Fri Jun 12, 2009 11:36 am

Those screenshots look eerily familiar

Diddl · Post by **Diddl** » Fri Jun 12, 2009 12:59 pm

Schema wrote:Those screenshots look eerily familiar

Yes, I took the base program from Disk "Utility Cartridge for the VIC-20": click

This wonderful cartridge code has inspired me to do this way, cause it's first time I program for a VIC. Without this code I would be back a couple of weeks. Hope you don't be angry?

brighty · Post by **brighty** » Fri Jun 12, 2009 5:37 pm

Man, both of these projects look fantastic.

Pedro Lambrini wrote:My fear is, though, that all this effort and development will go for nothing unless some software dudes start working alongside the hardware lot and make something useful at launch as it were...

It's certainly tickling my interest. The things that appeal to me are:

ethernet interface to build TCP/UDP multiplayer netplay into a new game
If co-processor(s) can be used to load data to expansion RAM fast and then bankswitch this into VIC, some interesting possibilities are opened up
SID capabilities would be excellent

I'll be following the development of both of these projects closely and will be putting my name on the list to buy either/both of them when orders are open.

Oh, and I'm also looking forward to my MegaCart too, but I think I'm number 999,999 on the list, as I ordered quite late

6502dude · Post by **6502dude** » Fri Jun 12, 2009 6:51 pm

brighty wrote:Oh, and I'm also looking forward to my MegaCart too, but I think I'm number 999,999 on the list, as I ordered quite late

You are about 4 weeks away.

amramsey · Post by **amramsey** » Fri Jun 12, 2009 9:18 pm

carlsson wrote:Stereo what, SID or VIC-I sound? Ethernet sounds great, that is a feature the Germans should add to their card as well. Ideally you all should stick to the same type of controller chip and I/O addressing.

Not SID yet. We were planning to start off with some speech synthesis stuff in the microcontroller and go from there. There is a stereo audio DAC on the board which is driven by both the FPGA and the AVR processor. I suppose it would be possible to run something like SwinSID (http://www.swinkels.tvtom.pl/swinsid/) in the AVR, but I think that an FPGA implementation of the SID is likely more interesting and flexible. Using real SID chips is a massive pain in the butt... having to come up with a 9V or 12V supply and then source SID chips... ugh!

matsondawson wrote:Crap, you too? Why an FPGA?

Ah, the FPGA makes it incredibly flexible. A nice 100,000 gate FPGA runs about $10 in very low quantities. In its most basic utility, it is used to buffer all the I/O lines from the PIC while loading data into ram from the sdcard. It then allows the cartridge to decode the address bus to provide lots of neat little features all sitting at different places in ram (IO2/IO3). Bank switching is just the start. It allows the AVR processor to be memory mapped into the vic-20s space, which means that you can now use the AVR to crunch data (for instance). The FPGA is big enough that you could load up something like a floating point engine into it as well as the audio stuff, let the AVR handle the majority of the ethernet traffic and basically have the vic-20 running a game or application at full speed without having to worry about any of that stuff.

The cart is designed so that the vic can tell the AVR or FPGA to load data from the sdcard. That data could be custom software on the either of them to support the program being run on the vic, or could be massive datafiles with audio/video/whatever.

Of course, that's just all extra. The core of the cartridge is the ability to pull out the sdcard, load roms from your PC onto it and play a game. Or hook your PC up to its USB interface and load the programs directly there.

Pedro Lambrini wrote:My fear is, though, that all this effort and development will go for nothing unless some software dudes start working alongside the hardware lot and make something useful at launch as it were...

Well, that's always the trick. I think that's why both of these carts (Diddl's and mine) are just an easy way to load software onto a stock Vic-20. The rest of it is all optional.

I'm sure that there are lots of purists out there that can't understand why someone would want to expand a vic, instead of just moving to a new platform like the c64 or amiga. For me, it comes down to one thing. When I owned my Vic back in the early 80s, I dreamed about all the things that were possible.... controlling lights/heating/cooling in a house, making it into a robot and having it explore and learn by itself, writing some crazy AI that tries to start a nuclear war...

At the time, I was young enough that I didn't know that those things were insanely hard (or even impossible) given the state of technology. Now that I'm older, more capable and have the tools at my disposal to make some of that stuff possible, I can't see how it violates any sort of retro law that I shouldn't be able to make my vic into the most kick ass machine that I can.

If I had been able to do it back in 1983, I would have done it then.

Anyhow, sorry Diddl about crashing your post. Your cart looks pretty cool. Given that you have the 2G sdcard at your disposal, why didn't you use that to store the cartridge menus, etc... instead of using the EEPROM? And I'm curious what the Coffee pin will be used for....

Diddl · Post by **Diddl** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 1:45 am

amramsey wrote: Anyhow, sorry Diddl about crashing your post. Your cart looks pretty cool. Given that you have the 2G sdcard at your disposal, why didn't you use that to store the cartridge menus, etc... instead of using the EEPROM? And I'm curious what the Coffee pin will be used for....

No problem, two good news are better than one. Every new VIC hardware and software is a good news (for me).

I also waiting hard for my MegaCart, I also ordered very late I fear.

The reason for this coffee PIN is a insider joke from hardware designer in forum 64:

I started with a 8 bit baby (FE v1) 3 month ago. I only want to have a small CPLD starter project, and cause I love this old Commodore computers I thougt this FE would be a good idea. I never thought anyone would have a interest in this project.

Then things go on and helping hands improves the hardware, creates layout and so on. every day a new idea and every day a new feature.

JMP$FCE2 made the PCB layout and had a very hard job, every day a new layout cause new ideas come in. One day v3 design was ready and JMP$FCE2 thought it's finished now. But the idea of this realtime clock and the LCD display port destroys this hope. A new layout again ...

JMP$FCE2 made this last minute change and said: now it is really finished! But Unseen (developer of SD2IEC) made a joke: what is with my automatically coffee trigger??!! Always after a new highscore automatically should come a cup of coffee ...

Unseen · Post by **Unseen** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 2:57 am

amramsey wrote:And I'm curious what the Coffee pin will be used for.... :D

At one point during the development someone (I think the guy that did the layout) said that he thought that the latest iteration of the hardware is now feature-complete. I joked then that it wasn't because it didn't even include a coffee maker (would've been a kitchen sink instead on an english forum) which resulted in that Coffee pin. It's connected to the alarm output of the RTC, so in theory you could use the cart to start up your coffee machine at a certain time.

Mikam73 · Post by **Mikam73** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 5:18 am

Can I buy ready cartridge or do I have to build this of kit myself?

This would be very cool if it let run Vic20 demos from SD card and also games that are missing from Megacart.

Picture of cartridge label wont work for me.

Also Disc loader F-key is one of those that you get with Shift key, I guess Disk loader would be one of options that is used very often.

Yes.. I want one..

brighty · Post by **brighty** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 5:30 am

6502dude wrote:You are about 4 weeks away.

Hey cool! I wasn't worried, as like I said, I ordered late, and I appreciate how much work you have to put into assembling each one.

Diddl · Post by **Diddl** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 6:00 am

Mikam73 wrote:Can I buy ready cartridge or do I have to build this of kit myself?

It will by a kit, so you have to solder parts yourself. But it is not difficult, cause no SMD parts there only DIL and PLCC.

Mikam73 wrote:This would be very cool if it let run Vic20 demos from SD card and also games that are missing from Megacart.

Yes! This is also my intention for the final cartridge.

----

I am sorry. I did edit your message by accident. It was supposed be quote button..

Pedro Lambrini · Post by **Pedro Lambrini** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 6:17 am

^
On your site for the cart the picture for the label of the cart doesn't load. At least I presume that's what he means.

brighty · Post by **brighty** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 6:19 am

Diddl wrote:It will by a kit, so you have to solder parts yourself. But it is not difficult, cause no SMD parts there only DIL and PLCC.

You have no idea how much havoc and self-harm I can wreak with a soldering iron!

Maybe I can find a paid volunteer to assemble one for me

Diddl · Post by **Diddl** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 6:28 am

hmm, the URL for the picture is ...

http://vc20final.t-winkler.net/index-Da ... _Label.jpg

... and it works fine for me?? I'm using Firefox 3.0.8.

Pedro Lambrini · Post by **Pedro Lambrini** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 6:29 am

Well, I need to get better at soldering so maybe this will be the catalyst to get me started.

Diddl · Post by **Diddl** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 6:31 am

normaly someone in your circle of friends can do the job (soldering).