Final Expansion :: 512KB SRAM + 512KB EEPROM + SD Card (2GB)

[Mike]

@orion70: Woohoo! Congrats!

@Diddl: VICtoria Gold is a strategy game orion70, and I wrote in 2008. You can read about it here: 'New release: VICtoria Gold Edition for VIC +16K'.

Unfortunately, the boot loader for VICtoria is rather an ancient one, and it happens to work in direct mode, too. So in that case, the addresses will still get displayed by SJLOAD.

...

I'll prepare a new bootloader for VICtoria (taken from MINIPAINT) which runs in program mode, and shouldn't anymore pose that problem.

And the boot process then will look nicer, too.

Michael

[Diddl]

Wow, even a PDF manual is included, you did a great work!


I like round based strategic games. Does you know Slay? You should try it. Slay runs under Windows, Windows mobile, iphone ...

[eslapion]

A few millenias ago, when I planned on designing the Flashcart, I found a 32mbit flash memory chip for it.

The 29F032 is now discontinued or extremely hard to find but I am sure there is some other equivalent that could be used.

Do you think it might have been a good idea to use such a chip on the final expansion?

[Diddl]

Do you think it might have been a good idea to use such a chip on the final expansion?

Interesting device!

Looking in the datasheet it seems very similar to 29F040 used by us.


If you build a TSOP to DIL Adapter it should be possible to use it in a FE3 Cartridge.

Since I use Sector erase the full memory should be supported by the firmware. You only have to wire A19 to A21 to a DIP switch or to the Userport to select one of the 8 super-banks.


The question is, why do you need such an amount of memory? Since FE3 can use SRAM as ROM by write protect it can use a whole SD card (2GB) for applications and games.

[Diddl]

Maybe we could use Pin 44,2 and 5 of the CPLD to address A19 to A21.

But the register bits are already allocated. A new register would be nessecary to select the 8 super banks.

Would be a nice idea ...

[eslapion]

The question is, why do you need such an amount of memory? Since FE3 can use SRAM as ROM by write protect it can use a whole SD card (2GB) for applications and games.

The idea is to completely remove the need for the SD card altogether and have instant parallel access to any area of the flash chip.

Another solution that is even more powerful is this one:
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSea ... 3A2DN6E-ND

This chip is designed for 3.6v but the 6502 can read and write to such chips with a simple voltage corrector like those used on the 1541Ultimate so the c64 can exchange information with an FPGA running at 3.3v.

At around 7.50$, this is a mammoth amount of parallel accessible memory.

[Diddl]

This device doesn't have an own address and data bus. The CPLD would need a own clock with 8 MHz, but synchron with the VIC clock to support the address multiplex.

It would be possible to develop a 64MB (512MBit) card for the VIC.



But I see no benefit to a SD card or USB stick solution. You dislike SD card cause speed reasons?

We could make a SD solution very fast if a controller write directly in the SRAM.

A AT90USB168 could do a mass storage host support, so you can use any USB stick or USB harddisk.

[Mike]

The idea is to completely remove the need for the SD card altogether ...

Oh, I'm quite happy with the SD2IEC being included with FE3.

[Diddl]

New firmware 019:

+ SJLOAD: Improved loading speed by 40% (thanks to Hydrophilic!)

+ SJLOAD: Now nearly all kernal IO vectors used: CHKIN,CKOUT,BSOUT,BASIN,CLALL,CLRCH (not only LOAD, SAVE)

This improves data access to jiffy devices (also in BASIC).
Is not supported in Mini Wedge (Wedge in 3K LO-RAM, memory config F7).

+ SJLOAD: Messages only in direct mode. In program mode messages are suppressed.


A small BASIC program (included in 019 package) which read/writes 8K data shows speed improvements:

Normal VIC-20:
write 25,26s
read 18,70s

VIC-20 with SJLOAD and Jiffy 1541:
write 19,51s
read 10,34s

VIC-20 with SJLOAD and SD2IEC:
write 6,45s
read 4,0s


have fun ...



download firmware from my page: click

[eslapion]

This device doesn't have an own address and data bus. The CPLD would need a own clock with 8 MHz, but synchron with the VIC clock to support the address multiplex.

Correct.

This one is not multiplexed:
http://www.numonyx.com/Documents/Datash ... 9W128G.pdf

But it has only 128MBit (16Mbytes)

But I see no benefit to a SD card or USB stick solution. You dislike SD card cause speed reasons?

I just thought it would be nice to have a RAMLink for the VIC-20.

... or a super megasized instant access multicart.

We could make a SD solution very fast if a controller write directly in the SRAM.

Of course. SD cards themselves are probably faster than the VIC-20's 6502 bus. I just thought it might be technically much easier to have a direct parallel access than to have to use an external uC to convert the serial bus of the SD card into something the VIC can make sense of.

If you usean SD card, you must copy the content you want to use into RAM accessible to the 6502. If you use a parallel flash chip, you can have the 6502 directly access the data that you want to use. Just like the Behr Bonz and Megacart do.

In effect, you have instant access.

A AT90USB168 could do a mass storage host support, so you can use any USB stick or USB harddisk.

I failed to find AT90USB168 on both Digikey and mouser. What is it?

Still, the need to copy and transfer data to a type of memory directly accessible by the 6502 is not eliminated by a USB stick or hard disk.

[Diddl]

I failed to find AT90USB168 on both Digikey and mouser. What is it?

My mistake, it is a AT90USB162.

There are very cheap boards available for $15: Bumble-B

Still, the need to copy and transfer data to a type of memory directly accessible by the 6502 is not eliminated by a USB stick or hard disk.

Yes, technically there is a difference.

But it makes no difference to say

* VIC itself select a bank and access memory

* VIC calls an API to get data into a memory and access this.

If both methodes are fast enough there is no benefit for direct access. But to have a mass storage has the benefit to open a modern world (PC) to change data between.

[orion70]

+ SJLOAD: Messages only in direct mode. In program mode messages are suppressed.

Thanks! Also from Mike .

Normal VIC-20:
write 25,26s
read 18,70s

VIC-20 with SJLOAD and Jiffy 1541:
write 19,51s
read 10,34s

VIC-20 with SJLOAD and SD2IEC:
write 6,45s
read 4,0s

Impressive.

One question: to flash it, I will use fe3flash.prg loading it from the BASIC prompt, right?

[Diddl]

One question: to flash it, I will use fe3flash.prg loading it from the BASIC prompt, right?

Only the first time (if flash is empty).

To reflash over an old version from FE3 simply copy the firmware file (fe3firmware.prg) into the root (\) of the SD card. In FE3 main Menu choose F6, F2 to update the firmware.

This works in VICE also, if option 'writeback' is set ...

[nbla000]

Hi Diddl,

I've some problem with latest r19 firmware with my sd2brwse vic-20 porting.

When I try to load something (using basic wedge) after my standard load call, I get a blinking cursor like I was in BASIC and nothing is loaded.

When starting in normal Basic, the programs works properly but in normal speed of course.

I think something mess with your last Vic-toria fix, I had no time for debug or source checking but I'm quite sure there is something wrong, no problems with r18a firmware.

How do you check RUN or direct mode ? There is a zp location that displays this status.

I think you have my beta version of sd2brwse btw Vic20-Ian has it, you may contact me in case.

I've another problem even without sd2brwse, how may I start a cart image on fly with FE3 ?

Using a vic ram on blk5 just LOAD"CARTNAME",8,1 and then SYS64802 to start, same for Mega-Cart but using the FE3, after the SYS64802 the Menu restarts.

How to load and start a program on BLK5 without complicated config files like for 8k programs ?

[Diddl]

I've some problem with latest r19 firmware with my sd2brwse vic-20 porting.

When I try to load something (using basic wedge) after my standard load call, I get a blinking cursor like I was in BASIC and nothing is loaded.

When starting in normal Basic, the programs works properly but in normal speed of course.

Could you send me this program with instructions how to produce the problem by email? I will debug it ...

How do you check RUN or direct mode ? There is a zp location that displays this status.

Yes it is $9d, if it is not $80 I supress the messages like VIC kernel does.

I think you have my beta version of sd2brwse btw Vic20-Ian has it, you may contact me in case.

No I haven't, please send me.

I've another problem even without sd2brwse, how may I start a cart image on fly with FE3 ?

Using a vic ram on blk5 just LOAD"CARTNAME",8,1 and then SYS64802 to start, same for Mega-Cart but using the FE3, after the SYS64802 the Menu restarts.

How to load and start a program on BLK5 without complicated config files like for 8k programs ?

Blk5 is available if you start with "all RAM": F1,F7


But you also can switch it on (if wedge is off!!) at any time with POKE.

For example start FE3, quit to BASIC with F8, wedge is off now.

Activate BLK5 RAM with POKE39938,128.

Now you can LOAD it and execute in BLK5. Also no FE3 comes on a Reset (only red Reset, cause red switch on ROM)