Denial

I have to cast my vote for the minty fresh taste of Minter myself. He's a bit of a drama queen but he knew how to squeeze some really intense gaming experiences out of the VIC-20 hardware. Griner, by contrast, is better known for comical games that are fun novelties but don't really grab hold of you the way that, say, Gridrunner did.

I'm sure Jeff Minter's gameplay combined with some of Tom Griner's routines could've been a nice combo. Both were very good at squeezing in a lot in small space. Eugine Evans at Imagine was another of those guys even if I'm not too fond of neither Wacky Waiters nor Catcha Snatcha.

My vote went to Griner... I still love Andes Attack, but I haven't been much attracted from the other Minter's games (I know that now I could be banned for this ). I think that Griner's work in particular Shamus and Chplifter pushed vic hardware to its limit!!! What do you think, I can still be one of denial forum?

Ivanhoe76 wrote:I think that Griner's work in particular Shamus and Choplifter pushed vic hardware to its limit!!! What do you think, I can still be one of denial forum?

Yes, definitely .
C'mon guys, vote for Griner!

ok so i've had a go on the Tom Griner selection. i've used the list which appears to be in date order and as you would expect - the game visuals improve from game to game.. but not always the gameplay.

Guardian-Unspectacular sideways scroller clone - 5/10

Meteors-Asteroids clone-Not bad but no UFO chasing-not sure if there is a hyperspace option-6/10

Astroblitz-Defender clone-Better than Guardian but no replay value for me-6/10

Videomania-Music ! Version of 'the entertainer' plays and I like music in games so this is a big plus. Intermission screens. Bit Berzerk like. So far the pick of them all - an all round good arcade game. 7/10

Black Hole-Vector graphics ! Way ahead of Elite on the BBC For me not as playable as Videomania so 6/10 once more.

Terraguard-Great shooter, good character graphics and the mothership an original idea. 8/10

Predator-Joust looking but it isnt. Berzerk style explosions which look cool. Colourful but not much gameplay there for me. 5/10.

Mosquito Infestation-What was he thinking !? 4/10.

Maze-Not as dull as the title suggests. Bit Bomberman. A good game requires some thought. 7.5/10

Satellite Patrol-Big Gorf style graphics and a clever radar showing where the aliens are. Technically cleverer than Terraguard but I prefer it less - 6.5/10

Shamus-An excellent Vic 20 game. I still havent completed this. 9/10.

Choplifter-Totally superb. 10/10.

Top 5 Tom Griner Games

1) Choplifter
2) Shamus
3) Terraguard
4) Maze
5) Videomania

I would play all 5 of these games again - many times. I should be clear that Choplifter and Shamus are the clear jewels in the crown - there is not much to choose between almost all of the other games.

this is a cool thread which has made me play a lot of games which i havent seen before. i dont know if many of these were ever released in the UK the only 2 I was aware of are the 2 I scored the highest. it is probably the same for the USA with Llamasoft, very few released there (?)

Llamasoft next ! But maybe it would be more fitting if someone from USA had a look at their ones ?

I look forward to Gamebase 2.0 and some long discussions and research about finding the true definitive 'Top Vic Games per publisher / Top 100 Games / Best version of Space Invaders etc..' This forum is a great thing.

I must admit Tom seems to have a much wider "range" than Jeff did as far as variety of game play.

Tom Griner, just...

Mostly because his range of games seem more varied than Jeff Minter... Minter did excellent 'Centipede' style shooting games, and importantly - cassettes for unexpanded Vic.. Griner seemed to want to explore the limits more.. vector graphics in one game, very impressive.

..and Choplifter, for a game programmed under duress, very good.

Minter had great visuals, great gameplay and great sound effects.. I think Griner was the better programmer.

Jeez, imagine if they had worked together, if that would even have been possible.

I think the newer members need to weigh in on this. Bump.


Sent from my phizzone

Jeff, you should have changed your avatar before bumping this - you're intimidating

I remember this thread. It came up about six months after I joined and I'd never even heard of Tom Griner.

My answer is Jeff Minter. I don't tend to play Tom Griner's games that often.

Just revisited Choplifter for the first time in six years. Given how much is going on, the speed and sprite movement is amazing for a VIC-20 game.