MiniGame Compo 2009 ?

[gklinger]

If you're all ideas, I'm all ears.

[carlsson]

Although no VIC-20 entries made it to the 1K category this year, the voting phase for 1K ends next Monday, September 7.

In the 2K category (submissions are due to September 30), I noticed Dr. Beep has entered a ZX Spectrum game called KenKen. At first I thought it was a rip-off of Ten Ten, but apparently there is some Suduko-like math puzzle invented in 2004 which is known as Ken-Ken. Imagine if Mattel made a Math Barbie edition in which she solves Ken-Ken puzzles!

[Bacon]

I see what you mean about the declining attention span in older gamers, but maybe the difference is that games were a lot more scarce when we were kids. Sega games were £30-£40 a throw -- on the rare occasions when I got a new Mega Drive/Game Gear game, I was pretty determined to make the most of it. These days, the same games are available for free on the internet or for a fraction of the original price on eBay. We can afford to be a lot more picky.

Coming in late to this discussion... I think you're right, but the difference for me is that where I lived cracked copies of VIC 20 and especially C64 games were easy to get hold of. When my brother and I sold our C64 in '87 we had several hundred games on disk, all of them cracked copies. Consequently I was almost as spoiled as I am today but as a teenager I had more free time to put into games so my attention span wasn't quite as bad as it is now.

[Jeff-20]

I see what you mean about the declining attention span in older gamers, but maybe the difference is that games were a lot more scarce when we were kids. Sega games were £30-£40 a throw -- on the rare occasions when I got a new Mega Drive/Game Gear game, I was pretty determined to make the most of it. These days, the same games are available for free on the internet or for a fraction of the original price on eBay. We can afford to be a lot more picky.

Grrr... but that's the problem for those of us who want to make old school games. You're only hope is cloning a familiar concept the player learned before the age of 12.

Observe:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OA3wCwUqUWk

This is how I imagine many players approach a new game. It's a good study in learning curves. Some may just bang on the fire button waiting for things to explode. This player keeps hitting the reset button, and it seems to the viewer like a game design flaw. She'll never even get to the actual game beyond that intro screen.

Another great example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IM-qmU-_ocI

And with 3k, there's not a whole lot of room for in-game instructions.

[English Invader]

Grrr... but that's the problem for those of us who want to make old school games. You're only hope is cloning a familiar concept the player learned before the age of 12.

There is room for innovation within established conventions. I recently posted a YouTube demo of an Atari ST game called r0x. This game takes the common space shoot-em-up scenario and changes the objective -- you have to avoid rocks that come towards you at gradually increasing speed instead of shooting them. The game challenges the player's initial expectations and yet fulfills them in a different way.

You can download the game from the following link:
http://www.rgcd.co.uk/r0x/r0x.zip

The zip file includes a special version of Steem that auto-loads with the r0x executive. You don't need to find an ST emulator.

[Jeff-20]

Cool. I looked up the video on YouTube. It looks fun. Again, to prove my point, it has in-game instructions. All of my games in the 80s would have required the user to read a manual to even get the background story or control scheme. It's a problem when you're dealing with the VICs memory. . . um. . . issues.

[TBCVIC]

Innovation lol
I just think that the programmer got bored and released it before he had bothered to implement shooting...

[Jeff-20]

I decided to give it a try again, but every year the website tells me that it cannot accept my entry because ZIP files are an invalid format... (yep, despite the on screen instructions). Let that be a lesson to me. I give up.

There are more games (and reviewers) here at Denial. We should have our own contest.

It seems like most of the games on MiniGameComp are written by one of the judges...(he won 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place in the first round) however, he doesn't seem to have a 4k entry yet. So, I predict the Yars Revenge port will win. And Pong second place.

[ravenxau]

There are more games (and reviewers) here at Denial. We should have our own contest.

jeff you may be onto something here - but perhaps instead of contest, it could be a "challenge". No winners or losers, we could just critique the submitted projects. The challenge could be set once a month with a particular theme for that month (eg. December might be a christmas theme).

[carlsson]

Well, to clarify: ANYONE can submit their votes. You don't have to participate with an entry to vote, neither are you disqualified from voting just because you participate. There is no JURY or likewise - not yet at least.

However I have posted on the MiniGame Compo forum + AtariAge forum that I will try to resurrect the compo for next year. I'm planning a full rehaul of the website, structure things, spread the word and make people think the compo is cool again. Therefore I'm not as thrilled about a VIC-20 compo, at least not one limited to certain program limitations. Well, I suppose 3.5K, 6.5K, 11.5K, 19.5K would be VIC size limitations which most are beyond what the MGC aims at.

Too bad the Zip file upload doesn't work. That is one more thing on my to-do list whenever I get to rehaul the website.

[Jeff-20]

Anders, who started the MiniComp? I knew you were a long-time judge, but are you now the manager of the competition? I have renewed confidence in the competition now. I worried that fewer and fewer people would participate each year, but your presence on the scene would be a great boost.

[carlsson]

Well, originally Steve Judd and Per Olofsson were on the admin team. Personally I have only been a participant who also tried to submit votes on most games.

Again you confuse things by calling someone a long-time judge, since anyone can participate in voting and all votes should be counted equal. However there has been a few cases of suspected vote cheating which would need to be looked into if the compo gets too popular again. In that respect a group of appointed judges next to the public voting may be in order, but we'll see if that step needs to be taken.

Basically I believe the website is what needs a rehaul. Collect as many games as possible from previous years, sort them into a searchable database ordered by year, platform, developer, file size. Get the online submission and voting forms working, post deadlines on the start page, fix broken links to outdated emulators.

[Jeff-20]

Ah, I understand now. Thanks for explaining. I would like to submit Ten Ten (since it's already available on the games page). The form didn't work. I'll try to email it to one of the admins. . . unless you can just take it from the games page(? )

I'm looking forward to the upgrades!

[GreyGhost]

On the topic of playing a game more than a second or two, I think the designer is the one with the most time involved. I know the few games I wrote (Autobaun, Air Raid-20, and Diamond Hunt), I spent hours of time playing them to make sure they worked just the way I wanted them to. Even some of the better games I've seen on here, I've only played them for a minute or two and probably missed out on some really neat ideas that others have created. The fun for me always came from the programming.

[Jeff-20]

I think I missed the deadline. I emailed a submission to one of the admins (because the online form wouldn't work for me), but it's not on the webpage, so I assume it may not have been accepted.