PAL silver label vic20

[mrr19121970]

Anyone seen this ?

http://m.ebay.de/itm/182083150787

I know oldcomputr fancied it.

Is it for real ? I was not aware there was a PAL model (not on jogis page) with a silver label. Also the serial number, made in Japan made me think it was an NTSC model. But the kernel and 6561 are PAL. Also the psu 240v with a USA style 2 prong connector.

anyone know more ???

[oldcomputr]

Anyone seen this ?

http://m.ebay.de/itm/182083150787

I know oldcomputr fancied it.

Is it for real ? I was not aware there was a PAL model (not on jogis page) with a silver label. Also the serial number, made in Japan made me think it was an NTSC model. But the kernel and 6561 are PAL. Also the psu 240v with a USA style 2 prong connector.

anyone know more ???

Hi all,
I talked to the seller while the listing was active to get him a picture of the motherboard (not present al first), because I was very interested in that model. I asked him to take a shot of the 6560/6561 IC.

What I noticed:
- serial number of the first batch of VICs from Japan... but
- it doesn't have the 1001006 board
- US-type two prong connector... but
- second version of the motherboard (it should be 324003-01 for NTSC and 324003-02 for PAL)
- PAL VIC

It looks like the "missing link", probably one of the first PAL VICs sold in Europe...

In fact I am so interested in that machine that I won the auction. I don't like eBay and the price is quite high but I don't think I could find another one like that anytime soon.

I am curious about the motherboard assembly number, it could be a 324003-01 adapted for the PAL standard.
I'll let you know.

BTW Jogi's model had the 1001006 board, no label and no serial number... that could be a demo unit. Is he on Denial? I tried to send him an e-mail in English from his site months ago but never got an answer.

[rgrocha]

Hi,

Does it has actually a silver label or a golden one like the USA model?

I scored some time ago a PET-keyboard VIC on Australia and it has a silver/golden label, t's made in Japan, serial number 532068.
The motherboard is the second model, not the first VIC20-E nor the third VIC20-CR and the VIC chip is a 6561E, so it's a PAL model (Can't check this stuff at this hour

The power connector is a tw-prong one but the squarish model, like the NTSC PSUs, in fact, I'm using it with a USA PSU.

Regards

[oldcomputr]

Hi,

Does it has actually a silver label or a golden one like the USA model?

I scored some time ago a PET-keyboard VIC on Australia and it has a silver/golden label, t's made in Japan, serial number 532068.
The motherboard is the second model, not the first VIC20-E nor the third VIC20-CR and the VIC chip is a 6561E, so it's a PAL model (Can't check this stuff at this hour :-)

The power connector is a tw-prong one but the squarish model, like the NTSC PSUs, in fact, I'm using it with a USA PSU.

Regards

The package is on its way to Italy - I still don't jave it. I can't tell from the picture, but I'm aware of the existance of silver labels VIC 20s. As you know most of them are golden (some are flat, early models have some varnish) but a friend of mine owns a silver label. As usual, it's difficult to tell if that was planned or if it simply was some mistake in a Commodore production plant...

[Mayhem]

My PAL Vic20 almost matches the one sold here... made in Japan, PAL VIC chip, golden label like the US models, two prong black metal case power supply like the early US models.

[rgrocha]

BTW, anyone knows which manual/user guide comes with the first PKS model that came in the while&blue box and PSU like the VIC1001 as Mayhem said? I have one with out manual and the others I've seen are w/o it too, like in the awesome page by oldcomputr (http://www.oldcomputr.com/commodore-vic-20-1981/)

I've updated the wiki with all manual versions Ive seen (http://sleepingelephant.com/denial/wiki ... ser_manual)

[ral-clan]

Take a look at the power supply closely. That's one of the wierdest, non-standard Commodore logos I've ever seen. The font is different and has what looks like dwarf capital letters, or at least the letters "MM" are very strangely angular. Perhaps this font was used in the UK - I've certainly never seen it here in Canada.

And yes, the connector for the power supply is exactly like the N. American 2-prong model VIC-20. Different than the more common UK 2-prong socket I've seen.

I agree with the theory that the very earlist Japanese made VICs with PET keyboard must have been the same internationally.
The question is - was there ever a PET keyboard VIC-20 in the UK with the later paper rainbow label and later style UK 2-prong power connector?

[rgrocha]

I've seen those PSUs before with early Atari 8 bit (400/800 models) sold in UK, branded Tadmod,. Those computers have also 9vAC power sources, so they should be an OEM PSU builder used on early machines sold there.

There were early Europe logo PSK machines. Actually I have a couple of them.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/mps1wq5gipdkp ... 3.jpg?dl=0
This one was built.in Germany.

Take a look at the power supply closely. That's one of the wierdest, non-standard Commodore logos I've ever seen. The font is different and has what looks like dwarf capital letters, or at least the letters "MM" are very strangely angular. Perhaps this font was used in the UK - I've certainly never seen it here in Canada.

And yes, the connector for the power supply is exactly like the N. American 2-prong model VIC-20. Different than the more common UK 2-prong socket I've seen.

I agree with the theory that the very earlist Japanese made VICs with PET keyboard must have been the same internationally.
The question is - was there ever a PET keyboard VIC-20 in the UK with the later paper rainbow label and later style UK 2-prong power connector?

[mrr19121970]

The question is - was there ever a PET keyboard VIC-20 in the UK with the later paper rainbow label and later style UK 2-prong power connector?

Yes. See here
http://sleepingelephant.com/ipw-web/bul ... f=4&t=7956

[mrr19121970]

Did this machine arrive?

Working? Please post pics.

[oldcomputr]

The machine arrived a few days ago, non working as declared by the seller (random characters at startup). All the big ICs are socketed so I could easily check them - none was bad.

I asked a friend to help me and he spent a few hours on Saturday and all Sunday afternoon to check all the signals with an oscilloscope studying the schematics, but he couldn't find the problem. Then he realised that putting his finger on the first RAM changed the defect on screen... the problem was a broken track under one of the 2114 ICs!
2114 unsoldered, track repaired, soldered back on the motherboard. I preferred to keep the motherboard original without sockets.

The VIC 20 has got a silver label, and the motherboard is assembly number 324003, fabrication number 324002-02. Nothing new here.
But it has another code under the assy nr: KU-141T94HB. It's probably just a different production plant. And above the assy nr there is a "V C 20" text, with a space between the "V" and the "C" like someone took away the "I" for the German market.

The sn label on the bottom is identical to the early VICs made in Japan; the two prong connector is the VIC 1001 / US one, with no separator in the middle.

So far now I've found three different PAL motherboards. They share the same assy and fab. nr, identical layout, one of them has smaller capacitors; they are clearly different batches. Another one has a different code under the assy nr: W-1894HB, with "VC 20" text.

The power supply plug was modified in a way that it could be used on "normal" European VIC 20 models with the separator between the two prongs.

I sent a message to the seller (a very kind person):

I'd like to ask you a few questions about the history of this VIC 20.
Were you the original owner? Where and when did you buy the computer? The plug of the power supply unit has been modified: did you do that?
The motherboard is quite uncommon and I'd like to gather as much information as I can. I hope that you or maybe the previous/original owner can ask some of my questions :-)

His reply (he gave me the permission to post it):

I have been reading the fuss this caused on the forums :) I know the full history. It was pre-ordered in Burnley Lancashire by a close friend from a small independant computer company. This is one of the very first 100 machine to be released and sold in England. He has had the machine until 2 years ago when he gave it to me knowing that I repair and restore vintage machines. The PSU it came with is the modified one you have. I dont know if he did this or if it was done by the shop in 1981. When I took the top off at your request for a picture that was the first time ever that machine had been opened. Now I believe there was a shortage in the UK in 1981 on initial release due to large demand and I have heard rumours that machines where cobbled together from Japanese models to satisfy early demand. If thats true then this is probably one of those but as I say it's just a rumour I heard. I know the machine is unique but I have lots of other interesting machines to finish and restore including 3 other Vic 20's so I decided to let this one go to a dedicated commodore enthusiast. I did buy the tape deck to complete the setup and I did buy another x2 pronged PSU but interestingly it did not fit ! so I included the original modified one. Deduce what you will from that. If you have any other questions please just ask. If I dont know the answer I am still in touch with the original owner and I 'am happy to ask him for you.

I don't have time now to take pictures - my Kickstarter campaign for the book will start next Monday - but I hope to shoot a few pictures in the next weeks and write an article about those three different PAL motherboards.