Boray Gammon (Now V2.0)
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Re: Boray Gammon
And now, some stats from my own playing. As you can see, I've been playing this game a lot! And also as you can see, the difference between 1.45 and the following two versions is pretty big.
PRG Starter - a VICE helper / Vic Software (Boray Gammon, SD2IEC music player, Vic Disk Menu, Tribbles, Mega Omega, How Many 8K etc.)
Boray Gammon V2.0
Boray Gammon V2.0
http://www.boray.se/commodore/gammon/
News in V2.00:
* The AI is 22% stronger. When playing 7-point matches against the previous version, the new version wins 1.8 times as many matches.
* New winning and losing effects.
* And some more...
Even if the game looks about the same to you, there was a lot of work and testing put into this version. Test games generating over 84000 game points were run and documented. In the project folder, there are 203 program and test versions saved since 1.68. Compared to the development of the previous release (1.52->1.68) there were just 23 versions saved.
Because of the many changes to the AI, I had to test this version's improvement in a different way. I copied the whole main AI routine of V1.68 into the V2.00 source code and let one of the players use that. I also reduced the element of luck by repeating the same random sequence (for the dices) for two rounds in a row and switching who begins. For example:
In game 1: White gets random sequence A and begins while black gets random sequence B.
In game 2: Black gets random sequence A and begins while white gets random sequence B.
In game 3: White gets random sequence C and begins while black gets random sequence D.
In game 4: Black gets random sequence C and begins while white gets random sequence D.
...and so on. I would think this is more fair than using totally random numbers.
I thought about keeping this method as a playing option, but came to the conclusion that humans would have the advantage of being able to remember a couple of the starting moves of the previous round while the AI wouldn't, so I skipped it.
http://www.boray.se/commodore/gammon/
News in V2.00:
* The AI is 22% stronger. When playing 7-point matches against the previous version, the new version wins 1.8 times as many matches.
* New winning and losing effects.
* And some more...
Even if the game looks about the same to you, there was a lot of work and testing put into this version. Test games generating over 84000 game points were run and documented. In the project folder, there are 203 program and test versions saved since 1.68. Compared to the development of the previous release (1.52->1.68) there were just 23 versions saved.
Because of the many changes to the AI, I had to test this version's improvement in a different way. I copied the whole main AI routine of V1.68 into the V2.00 source code and let one of the players use that. I also reduced the element of luck by repeating the same random sequence (for the dices) for two rounds in a row and switching who begins. For example:
In game 1: White gets random sequence A and begins while black gets random sequence B.
In game 2: Black gets random sequence A and begins while white gets random sequence B.
In game 3: White gets random sequence C and begins while black gets random sequence D.
In game 4: Black gets random sequence C and begins while white gets random sequence D.
...and so on. I would think this is more fair than using totally random numbers.
I thought about keeping this method as a playing option, but came to the conclusion that humans would have the advantage of being able to remember a couple of the starting moves of the previous round while the AI wouldn't, so I skipped it.
PRG Starter - a VICE helper / Vic Software (Boray Gammon, SD2IEC music player, Vic Disk Menu, Tribbles, Mega Omega, How Many 8K etc.)
Re: Boray Gammon (Now V2.0)
So, have anyone tried V2.00 yet?
PRG Starter - a VICE helper / Vic Software (Boray Gammon, SD2IEC music player, Vic Disk Menu, Tribbles, Mega Omega, How Many 8K etc.)
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Re: Boray Gammon (Now V2.0)
Been very busy this week... and Star Wars launches tonight... maybe the weekend heh.
Lie with passion and be forever damned...
Re: Boray Gammon (Now V2.0)
Have been playing this on a regular basis since release (always playing clever vic) and have come to the conclusion that I must be the unluckiest player in history.
Most times when I am forced to leave a single on the board, clever vic will get a throw that can knock me off - not that he always does.
Nearly every time that he is forced to leave a single, I can't get anywhere near him. If I chance my arm and play recklessly, I am 100% going to get punished for it. Several times I have needed to get home quickly but can only throw low values until getting home and lose by a couple of counters.
Other times he would need to get two lots of high value doubles to beat me and of course, he gets them. This game is brilliantly programmed and despite my feeling of gross unfairness and persecution will continue to play and ENJOY many more games.
Most times when I am forced to leave a single on the board, clever vic will get a throw that can knock me off - not that he always does.
Nearly every time that he is forced to leave a single, I can't get anywhere near him. If I chance my arm and play recklessly, I am 100% going to get punished for it. Several times I have needed to get home quickly but can only throw low values until getting home and lose by a couple of counters.
Other times he would need to get two lots of high value doubles to beat me and of course, he gets them. This game is brilliantly programmed and despite my feeling of gross unfairness and persecution will continue to play and ENJOY many more games.
Re: Boray Gammon (Now V2.0)
Thank you for the warm words!
PRG Starter - a VICE helper / Vic Software (Boray Gammon, SD2IEC music player, Vic Disk Menu, Tribbles, Mega Omega, How Many 8K etc.)
Re: Boray Gammon (Now V2.0)
I made a little experiment this morning: This is the result after me playing against V1.68 and V2.00 simultaneously using manual dices and exactly the same dice throws:
I noticed that 1.68 made a better move on one occasion though, but as you can see, V2.00 did better in the whole game.
I noticed that 1.68 made a better move on one occasion though, but as you can see, V2.00 did better in the whole game.
PRG Starter - a VICE helper / Vic Software (Boray Gammon, SD2IEC music player, Vic Disk Menu, Tribbles, Mega Omega, How Many 8K etc.)
Re: Boray Gammon (Now V2.0)
Tried the same experiment again:
PRG Starter - a VICE helper / Vic Software (Boray Gammon, SD2IEC music player, Vic Disk Menu, Tribbles, Mega Omega, How Many 8K etc.)
Re: Boray Gammon (Now V2.0)
I went on and repeated the test again:
...and again:
So, in four games against me with identical dice throws for the two versions, V1.68 got the sum of -4 points while V2.00 got the sum of 3 points. So the difference between the two was that V2.00 scored 7 points more in 4 games which is 1.75 points more per game.
...and again:
So, in four games against me with identical dice throws for the two versions, V1.68 got the sum of -4 points while V2.00 got the sum of 3 points. So the difference between the two was that V2.00 scored 7 points more in 4 games which is 1.75 points more per game.
PRG Starter - a VICE helper / Vic Software (Boray Gammon, SD2IEC music player, Vic Disk Menu, Tribbles, Mega Omega, How Many 8K etc.)
Re: Boray Gammon (Now V2.0)
I honestly haven't played backgammon in over 35 years and I had forgotten the rules...LOL.
Downloaded it today and played it thoroughly - the AI on hardest has beaten me 18 pts to my 1.
Quite the game - well done!
Downloaded it today and played it thoroughly - the AI on hardest has beaten me 18 pts to my 1.
Quite the game - well done!
Learning all the time...
Re: Boray Gammon (Now V2.0)
Thanks! And happy Christmas!
PRG Starter - a VICE helper / Vic Software (Boray Gammon, SD2IEC music player, Vic Disk Menu, Tribbles, Mega Omega, How Many 8K etc.)
Re: Boray Gammon (Now V2.0)
I have now played ten 7-point matches vs Clever Vic 2.00 and have yet not lost a match. All of my tests says V2.00 is stronger than V1.68 so I guess I must have developed my own playing as well.
PRG Starter - a VICE helper / Vic Software (Boray Gammon, SD2IEC music player, Vic Disk Menu, Tribbles, Mega Omega, How Many 8K etc.)
Re: Boray Gammon (Now V2.0)
Spoke too soon... I played again and lost my first 7-point match against V2.00 with the score 8-6:
Happy new year!
Happy new year!
PRG Starter - a VICE helper / Vic Software (Boray Gammon, SD2IEC music player, Vic Disk Menu, Tribbles, Mega Omega, How Many 8K etc.)
Re: Boray Gammon (Now V2.0)
There is now a C64 version as well:
http://www.boray.se/commodore/gammon/
http://www.boray.se/commodore/gammon/
The program was ported to the C64 in 2017 and also a bit improved upon. I tried to improve the AI, but in the end, the old "Clever Vic" wins more. I decided to add the new AI anyway as another opponent to choose from. I think it will be more fun to play against the new "Sid the Kid" AI than against "Beginner Bo" or "Reckless Ray" because these two old ones are just "Clever Vic" crippled, while Sid the Kid is doing his best just like Clever Vic.
Some other improvements are that you can choose checker design, you can press run/stop to go to the main menu, and when a round is finished, there is now a save option there (instead of first having to press yes and then save).
This version will most likely be ported to the Commodore Plus/4 as well.
PRG Starter - a VICE helper / Vic Software (Boray Gammon, SD2IEC music player, Vic Disk Menu, Tribbles, Mega Omega, How Many 8K etc.)
Re: Boray Gammon (Now V2.0)
Now also for the Plus/4:
This version is available for the C64 and the Plus/4 (or other 264-series computers with at least 32K of RAM).
New AI-player, "Uncle Ted", who is a composite player. It's actually Clever Vic, Sid the Kid and Reckless Ray taking turns.
Now possible to choose between 6 different board designs.
The home key now takes you to the main menu instead of run/stop.
PRG Starter - a VICE helper / Vic Software (Boray Gammon, SD2IEC music player, Vic Disk Menu, Tribbles, Mega Omega, How Many 8K etc.)