Ran into something on EBay last night.

JohnnyRockets · Post by **JohnnyRockets** » Thu Nov 15, 2012 7:40 am

Hey all,

Last night I came across something that I (in my lack of knowledge) did not know existed.

It was a Commodore 16.

I NEVER hear this machine talked about... What gives?

Is it like a "dark family secret"?

Witzo · Post by **Witzo** » Thu Nov 15, 2012 8:37 am

Hehe, that may be a good way to put it.
The C16's variant C116 was what Tramiel intended as a ZX Spectrum competitor. Unfortunately, he left the company before it could be marketed the way he intended, and Commodore didn't know what to do with it anymore, leading to the poorly conceived C16 and Plus/4, compatible with nothing and competing with the C64.
Bil Herd made a good vid explaining it. It could have been a nice small business administration machine in a time PCs were expensive. Alas...

adric22 · Post by **adric22** » Thu Nov 15, 2012 10:56 am

I actually own one.

It is basically a Plus/4 without the built in (crappy) software and limited to 16K of RAM. Then shoved into a C64 style case with a different color. Oh.. and it has no user-port either, I believe.

16KVIC20 · Post by **16KVIC20** » Thu Nov 15, 2012 11:03 am

Witzo wrote:Hehe, that may be a good way to put it.
The C16's variant C116 was what Tramiel intended as a ZX Spectrum competitor. Unfortunately, he left the company before it could be marketed the way he intended, and Commodore didn't know what to do with it anymore, leading to the poorly conceived C16 and Plus/4, compatible with nothing and competing with the C64.
Bil Herd made a good vid explaining it. It could have been a nice small business administration machine in a time PCs were expensive. Alas...

The main problem with it being a spectrum competitor was that it was 32K light on RAM!

JohnnyRockets · Post by **JohnnyRockets** » Thu Nov 15, 2012 11:37 am

adric22 wrote:I actually own one.

It is basically a Plus/4 without the built in (crappy) software and limited to 16K of RAM. Then shoved into a C64 style case with a different color. Oh.. and it has no user-port either, I believe.

Hi Adric22,

Do you use your C16 much? Boy, the price was right, I almost bought it and I didn't even know what I would do with it!

Pedro Lambrini · Post by **Pedro Lambrini** » Thu Nov 15, 2012 11:51 am

Didn't the C16 disk drive use the user Port? I know it plugs in somewhere strange anyway.

I like the C16. If Jack had stayed it would've been a much more focused and pocket-friendly system.

I think of it as the Vic's true successor as that's how it was conceived. An accessible, entry-level machine that competed with the likes of Uncle Clive.

If you took a Vic, stuck 16k inside along with a 40 column display and bigger palette you'd pretty much get a C16. It also has a more evolved version of BASIC in it.

Boray · Post by **Boray** » Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:29 pm

Pedro Lambrini wrote:Didn't the C16 disk drive use the user Port?

No, the expansion port to make it faster. You can use a normal 1541 in the serial port too.

Post by **Jeff-20** » Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:41 pm

For me, the C16 is a curiosity only because of its shape. If it didn't look so much like a VIC or C64, I would probably ignore it all together. It's just too different inside.

JohnnyRockets · Post by **JohnnyRockets** » Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:51 pm

Pedro Lambrini wrote:Didn't the C16 disk drive use the user Port? I know it plugs in somewhere strange anyway.

I like the C16. If Jack had stayed it would've been a much more focused and pocket-friendly system.

I think of it as the Vic's true successor as that's how it was conceived. An accessible, entry-level machine that competed with the likes of Uncle Clive.

If you took a Vic, stuck 16k inside along with a 40 column display and bigger palette you'd pretty much get a C16. It also has a more evolved version of BASIC in it.

Would $40 delivered be a good price for one? That was what it went for on EBay. I was tempted, I won't lie!

Pedro Lambrini · Post by **Pedro Lambrini** » Thu Nov 15, 2012 1:00 pm

TBH, I've no idea what they go for in the US. I know that as unpopular as they were over here it was even less successful in the States. I don't know how that affects their value though...

You should download a couple of game images and try them out in Vice or YAPE. At least it would give you an idea of what you'd be getting into.

I like Kikstart and Squirm in particular. They're both easy to find and are great fun. Also, Voidrunner. It's not the best game but it is the third game in the Gridrunner trilogy.

Dusty · Post by **Dusty** » Thu Nov 15, 2012 1:03 pm

The C16 / C116 / Plus4 computers are bullshit in my eyes, esp. as they were put into the market AFTER the C64. They had a better BASIC ROM (version 4.5 or so) and could show more colors, but didn't had hardware sprites and almost no compatibility.

$40 is much too much, I think. Just looked it up on eBay Germany and found a couple of bids below 10 EUR (~ 7.80 USD) incl. datasette.

Pedro Lambrini · Post by **Pedro Lambrini** » Thu Nov 15, 2012 1:19 pm

^
Sorry for going OT but are you the same Dusty that made Coppa Reloaded? I mailed you a while back and forgot to respond to you. Sorry for ignoring you if you're the same guy.

Anyway, that's a strong opinion of the C16 you've got there! Did you have one, at all? Or did you just 'upgrade' to the C64?

JohnnyRockets · Post by **JohnnyRockets** » Thu Nov 15, 2012 1:39 pm

Dusty wrote:The C16 / C116 / Plus4 computers are bullshit in my eyes, esp. as they were put into the market AFTER the C64. They had a better BASIC ROM (version 4.5 or so) and could show more colors, but didn't had hardware sprites and almost no compatibility.

$40 is much too much, I think. Just looked it up on eBay Germany and found a couple of bids below 10 EUR (~ 7.80 USD) incl. datasette.

$7.80 US !!!

I can't buy a paperback book in the States for that price!!!

missinglenk · Post by **missinglenk** » Thu Nov 15, 2012 1:52 pm

Yeah, I bought one a year ago and it works great. It does have BASIC version 3.5 on it. However, the joystick input is not the traditional Atari style 9-pin type. Not much I can do with it without a joystick. Besides this, most software you find is in PAL instead of NTSC. One thing I do like about the C16 (when comparing it at the same level as the VIC-20 and C-64) was the built in monitor program to that I can program in assembly.

One bit of advice JohnnyRockets is that if you plan to buy one, try to get pictures of the computer working. The TED chip in the C16 had issues and most of the time, if you buy one on eBay, you are taking a chance that the C16 will not render a display. Trying to find TED chip replacements here in the States are rare!

JohnnyRockets · Post by **JohnnyRockets** » Thu Nov 15, 2012 2:00 pm

missinglenk wrote:Yeah, I bought one a year ago and it works great. It does have BASIC version 3.5 on it. However, the joystick input is not the traditional Atari style 9-pin type. Not much I can do with it without a joystick. Besides this, most software you find is in PAL instead of NTSC. One thing I do like about the C16 (when comparing it at the same level as the VIC-20 and C-64) was the built in monitor program to that I can program in assembly.

One bit of advice JohnnyRockets is that if you plan to buy one, try to get pictures of the computer working. The TED chip in the C16 had issues and most of the time, if you buy one on eBay, you are taking a chance that the C16 will not render a display. Trying to find TED chip replacements here in the States are rare!

Hey Missinglenk!

Thanks, yeah this EBay listing said that it "powered on", but that was all that could tested... So, make ya wonder...