Bezerk MMX

llcameron · Post by **llcameron** » Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:02 pm

This is one amazing game!

One mans opinion: the best vic20 game ever.

My question: would coding such a game even have been possible back in the day? Could only the availability of modern tools make coding such a game possible?

Kweepa · Post by **Kweepa** » Wed Feb 23, 2011 4:37 pm

What about it makes you think that modern tools would be required?

My guess is the digitized speech.

I remember a program for the ZX81 that sampled sound from the cassette input and played it back. That was 1981. I believe the program was a type in listing in Your Computer. I was amazed to hear the Police coming from the computer, even if it was only a couple of seconds' worth.

[EDIT] The Atari 5200 version of Berzerk (1983) apparently has digitized speech (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berzerk).

Citadel for the BBC micro (1985) had sampled speech while loading.

So, it would have been possible to make this game in 1982, perhaps with lower sound fidelity. Modern tools obviously made it much easier.

(Then there's the arcade Berzerk, released in 1980, although admittedly that was made by a large company with custom hardware.)

rhurst · Post by **rhurst** » Wed Feb 23, 2011 5:58 pm

Nice. That thought has been explored many times and at many different angles.

Net-net, there is nothing like the conveniences of a modern assembler and emulation for testing and debugging. I don't *miss* the datasette and machine language monitor process any, but I do marvel that a lot *could* be done with a minimal setup. Jeff's BASIC games are a Hall of Fame full of trophies supporting that claim.

And having a community forum today to share and solicit feedback is an intangible piece to the process. Even though I was very much into the "CUG" scene back in the day, and it had a lot of fond memories and exchange of ideas (and software), its breadth and depth is not nearly as wide and deep as the people here bring to the table. Darkatx got me a working example and Linux took care of the rest to resample Berzerk WAV files into usable data on VIC's 4-bit volume channel -- and that took less than 2-hours.

Although I am only guessing, I suspect Jeff was as much a bitch back in 1982 as he was when he posted this demand -- so it's probably a wash there, but I still give him more credit than probably deserved for pushing my buttons to get it started, nevermind done. Imagine the flames he would have posted if it weren't completed! He's mellowed a bit since Berzerk, but his history and constant whining for Wizard of Wor is *almost* as bad as English Invader's lobbying for Ghostbusters and nbla000 dropping hints for Le Mans on every corner.

tokra · Post by **tokra** » Wed Feb 23, 2011 6:29 pm

Oooh, oooh, +1 for Wizard of Wor on the VIC here! One of my favorite childhood games. I remember the arcade back from when I was just 9 years old or so. The only way to see arcade games was when the carnival came to town twice a year and one of the trucks had them. I spent HOURS in there and could still draw a map where each machine was.

If anyone has a C64-cart of that to spare I'm interested as well. I got the "Magic Voice" cart in the early 90s for cheap, not knowing what to do with it, but just found out a year ago or so that Wizard of Wor is one of just 3 or 4 games that makes use of it. Would love to hear the C64 say "I AM THE WIZARD OF WOR" (or even better the VIC

)

Mayhem · Post by **Mayhem** » Wed Feb 23, 2011 10:21 pm

Yeah, for Magic Voice it's just Wizard of Wor, Gorf and A Bee Cs. Magic Desk was going to use it also, but that got cut from the program. There are a couple of other programs listed something that were going to use it, but I don't think either of them materialised.

Given the WoW conversion never happened for the Vic, then a modern version of it would be a good idea

llcameron · Post by **llcameron** » Thu Feb 24, 2011 7:17 am

rhurst wrote: Net-net, there is nothing like the conveniences of a modern assembler and emulation for testing and debugging. I don't *miss* the datasette and machine language monitor process any, but I do marvel that a lot *could* be done with a minimal setup. Jeff's BASIC games are a Hall of Fame full of trophies supporting that claim.

I was just thinking about when I was a kid coding games in machine language and the tools I had available versus today. When I got HESMON I thought I had died and gone to heaven because I no longer had to hand assemble my code. I was so hardcore dedicated, enjoyed the process so much, and didn't KNOW any better, but still managed to write some pretty fun little games by pure force of willpower. Thats whats so amazing to me about games written back in the day that were so impressive, some of my favorites like Gorf for instsance. I'm pretty sure that Gorf wasn't cross compiled on a super computer

rhurst · Post by **rhurst** » Thu Feb 24, 2011 11:54 am

Tinymon (a hex memory editor), then VICmon for me. Yes, and like many others: it was cool and capable of doing some nifty game programming with just those tools with the Programmer's Reference Guide as its bible.

llcameron wrote: ... wasn't cross compiled on a super computer

Gorf, et al were likely to have been developed using SuperPETs at the time, and later, a VAX (for more security control) by Commodore software engineers using assemblers -- so 50k of source code may have taken 5+ seconds to compile & link then, as opposed to the .05 seconds it takes now, but the programming tools and methods have not changed any. Using emulators and their debugging tools make for improved efficiency in the development cycle; pumping out code today is even more trivial than it was then, but better means does not translate directly to better code or improved gameplay either.

Time makes all the difference. No pressure from Jack to get a quota of game titles on the shelves for a product launch, Christmas, etc. or to recoup money spent for new licensing rights from some other gaming company. Time to do it right, debug it fully, squeeze in new optimizations and features. The result of time put into a program is what you are seeing, not the tools.

llcameron · Post by **llcameron** » Thu Feb 24, 2011 12:50 pm

rhurst wrote:Tinymon (a hex memory editor), then VICmon for me. Yes, and like many others: it was cool and capable of doing some nifty game programming with just those tools with the Programmer's Reference Guide as its bible.
llcameron wrote: ... wasn't cross compiled on a super computer
Gorf, et al were likely to have been developed using SuperPETs at the time, and later, a VAX (for more security control) by Commodore software engineers using assemblers -- so 50k of source code may have taken 5+ seconds to compile & link then, as opposed to the .05 seconds it takes now, but the programming tools and methods have not changed any. Using emulators and their debugging tools make for improved efficiency in the development cycle; pumping out code today is even more trivial than it was then, but better means does not translate directly to better code or improved gameplay either.

Time makes all the difference. No pressure from Jack to get a quota of game titles on the shelves for a product launch, Christmas, etc. or to recoup money spent for new licensing rights from some other gaming company. Time to do it right, debug it fully, squeeze in new optimizations and features. The result of time put into a program is what you are seeing, not the tools.

So I guess the Gorf coders had access to some decent tools as well it seems.

Excellent point about time making the difference. Bezerk MMX must have been a labor of love. Its so awesome to me there are VIC nerds out creating such wonderful games. The VIC20 is dead! Love live the VIC 20!