When I was a kid, we had maybe 10 cartridges for our Vic.. fortunately, as I've discovered since the fact, they were mostly all top-quality games - we also had some tapes and the only other source of games was type-ins from books or magazines.
I didn't know anyone else who had a Vic, so there was never a question of trading or stealing software - everything we had we paid for and was legitimate, something of a rarity in Australia which at the time led the world in software piracy (few people even blinked at the thought of copying commercial software back then)
There was an understanding that software was expensive and had a value attached to it, and so I made the effort to really get into every game we had. I played them over and over, recording my high scores in a book and trying to survive just a bit longer in each one..
-Also the typeins were their own reward for spending a couple of hours entering code into the computer. Sometimes you were rewarded with absolute crap, sometimes you'd get an absolute pearler. But again, there was a sense that you'd earned the game by entering it in, so you strove to understand it and play it, at least for a bit.
Then we bought our C64, largely due to the fact that by then all my friends seemed to have one. Suddenly, courtesy of a couple of them owning Freeze Frame cartridges, I had an instant pirated software collection. Hundreds of commercial games instead of 10s, the quality of which was undeniable.
But I never really played most of the games on the 64 - and I think it has something to do with the fact that, the less you invest in something, the less you want out of it. As an example, I couldn't be bothered playing Infocom games through, or getting to terms with the hottest shootemups going around. Some games regarded as absolute classics probably got booted up, then when I'd seen the initial graphics, put back in the disk box and never booted again.
The current retro trend has amplified this effect even more.. we have at our disposal every game ever released, but - how long do you spend looking at one particular game? What is it that determines whether you invest time in a game that, by today's standards, is technologically inferior in every aspect? If a game doesn't engage you within a minute, is that it?
It may be that this is the reason why I still play the same games I grew up with the most.. and why I get enthusiastic about my Vic, but can't get excited about my 64..
-G
The effects of piracy..
The effects of piracy..
3^4 is 81.0000001
I saw things the other way around.
A lot of the games that were sold on the C64 were crap. Graphically, they could get pretty good, and also usually had some very good sound. With exception to Infocom games, of course, which were always good and kept me glued to the keyboard for hours. Quite often, however, the gameplay left a lot to be desired. Magazine reviews became a crapshoot, because it started to become obvious that the advertisers of the magazines were scoring higher than they ought to have. Games were usually fairly expensive to buy. Who wanted to invest that kind of money in a game that would turn out to be crap?
As such, there were a lot of games that I only played for a minute or two then put away; however, there were games I wore out. Bard's Tale. Archon. Impossible Mission. Then, if a company had a good reputation for making good games, or a title such as Bard's Tale came out with a series, then I'd be much more inclined to buy it. Some games such as Bard's Tale offered more than just the game; the packaging contained tidbits that really helped things out in the game. Things like a map and a book of spells. In this case, the game got better when I bought it.
A lot of the games that were sold on the C64 were crap. Graphically, they could get pretty good, and also usually had some very good sound. With exception to Infocom games, of course, which were always good and kept me glued to the keyboard for hours. Quite often, however, the gameplay left a lot to be desired. Magazine reviews became a crapshoot, because it started to become obvious that the advertisers of the magazines were scoring higher than they ought to have. Games were usually fairly expensive to buy. Who wanted to invest that kind of money in a game that would turn out to be crap?
As such, there were a lot of games that I only played for a minute or two then put away; however, there were games I wore out. Bard's Tale. Archon. Impossible Mission. Then, if a company had a good reputation for making good games, or a title such as Bard's Tale came out with a series, then I'd be much more inclined to buy it. Some games such as Bard's Tale offered more than just the game; the packaging contained tidbits that really helped things out in the game. Things like a map and a book of spells. In this case, the game got better when I bought it.
I think I'm a bit more inclined to give a game time if it's the "real thing" that I've paid for, rather than a download.
But at the same time I know I put loads of time into some of the pirated games I had as a kid too. Mostly on the C-64, but all the Ultimas, Bard's Tale, Questron games I had were just copies, but I played every one through to completion, almost always without any kind of help.
But at the same time I know I put loads of time into some of the pirated games I had as a kid too. Mostly on the C-64, but all the Ultimas, Bard's Tale, Questron games I had were just copies, but I played every one through to completion, almost always without any kind of help.
Yes, games like Ultima, Questron, Bard's Tale and the Infocom Games (too bad you didn't get into them) were much better if you bought the originals. They came with extensive books, cloth maps, and funny little props or gizmos that really enriched the game play (sometimes you couldn't finish the Infocom games without a clue from the contents of the box).
SSI military games came with maps, and complicated instruction booklets which you needed to understand the game.
However, I must admit that as a 15 year old, I mostly copied all of these from friends!
SSI military games came with maps, and complicated instruction booklets which you needed to understand the game.
However, I must admit that as a 15 year old, I mostly copied all of these from friends!
Last edited by ral-clan on Wed Nov 21, 2007 10:03 am, edited 2 times in total.
back in high school, a great deal of time for many of us was spent in the computer room breaking copy protection and copying games.
one great one that i remember, is someone had hacked into the Taxman game for the apple II and removed all the ghosts!
without the ghost routines, i cannot even begin to tell you how fast your character moved across the screen, it was amazing!
one great one that i remember, is someone had hacked into the Taxman game for the apple II and removed all the ghosts!
without the ghost routines, i cannot even begin to tell you how fast your character moved across the screen, it was amazing!
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eslapion
- ultimate expander
- Posts: 5458
- Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2006 7:50 pm
- Location: Canada
- Occupation: 8bit addict
When I was on the VIC from late 1983 to late 1985, I had only ONE non pirated software and that was my Donkey Kong cartridge.
Everything else was either copied from somebody who had typed in a software from a magazine or copies made as a member of the Sorel VIC-20 club.
When I got my 64 in late 1985, it became a different story. I purchased many originals as there were considerably more software available for the 64.
Just about every piece of software I bought between late 1985 til the summer of 1986 were pretty much bummers. Sure, some of them had nice sounds and graphics but you got easily tired of them after less than 1 hour of play. Sometimes almost rightaway.
The only 2 notable exceptions were the Super Zaxxon cartridge (which was considerably different from the disk based version) and Gunship from Microprose. These two, I really got to appreciate and felt I got my money's worth.
For that reason, I never paid again for a C64 piece of software after that.
Since there was such a large base of software available for the 64, I could afford to be picky with copied software and I only took what interested me and quickly deleted undesirable stuff. When a software really interested me, I would go through all the trouble of photocopying all the manuals.
I felt that since there was such a large userbase on the 64, many software companies would just sell bummers with big advertisements to make a quick cash then just disappear.
Everything else was either copied from somebody who had typed in a software from a magazine or copies made as a member of the Sorel VIC-20 club.
When I got my 64 in late 1985, it became a different story. I purchased many originals as there were considerably more software available for the 64.
Just about every piece of software I bought between late 1985 til the summer of 1986 were pretty much bummers. Sure, some of them had nice sounds and graphics but you got easily tired of them after less than 1 hour of play. Sometimes almost rightaway.
The only 2 notable exceptions were the Super Zaxxon cartridge (which was considerably different from the disk based version) and Gunship from Microprose. These two, I really got to appreciate and felt I got my money's worth.
For that reason, I never paid again for a C64 piece of software after that.
Since there was such a large base of software available for the 64, I could afford to be picky with copied software and I only took what interested me and quickly deleted undesirable stuff. When a software really interested me, I would go through all the trouble of photocopying all the manuals.
I felt that since there was such a large userbase on the 64, many software companies would just sell bummers with big advertisements to make a quick cash then just disappear.
Last edited by eslapion on Wed Nov 21, 2007 8:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Although of course I had cartridges for my VIC-20, the only cassette games I actually had the originals of were Sword of Fargoal and Rescue at Rigel, both by EPYX.
Fargoal was a Christmas gift, and Rigel I purchased later on at a discount when the VIC was on the way out.
No regrets there. Most of the EPYX games for the VIC were good to outstanding.
Fargoal was a Christmas gift, and Rigel I purchased later on at a discount when the VIC was on the way out.
No regrets there. Most of the EPYX games for the VIC were good to outstanding.
In my experience, there were loads of garbage games released for most platforms; percentage-wise, the C-64 wasn't a bigger offender than the VIC-20 or the Atari 2600, imo.
Nintendo and then later console makers "fixed" that by controlling the manufacture of cartridges / CDs with certain standards, but that had other negative side-effects like shutting out smaller developers and thereby removing a fair bit of innovation.
Nintendo and then later console makers "fixed" that by controlling the manufacture of cartridges / CDs with certain standards, but that had other negative side-effects like shutting out smaller developers and thereby removing a fair bit of innovation.
A few more examples:
I had a pirated version of Sentinel for the Commodore 64. I played that game for hours on end, many nights a week. On my Amiga, I bought Sword of Sodan. I played it maybe twice and wish I hadn't bothered buying it.
On the other hand, I bought Euchre, which was part of a budget card game package, for the C64; I think it was something like $10, but it was very good. At that price, I felt guilty pirating it.
I had a pirated version of Sentinel for the Commodore 64. I played that game for hours on end, many nights a week. On my Amiga, I bought Sword of Sodan. I played it maybe twice and wish I hadn't bothered buying it.
On the other hand, I bought Euchre, which was part of a budget card game package, for the C64; I think it was something like $10, but it was very good. At that price, I felt guilty pirating it.
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Mayhem
- High Bidder
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- Location: London
Which is why I think they are worth a fair bit on eBay today compared to other titles...ral-clan wrote:Yes, games like Ultima, Questron, Bard's Tale and the Infocom Games (too bad you didn't get into them) were much better if you bought the originals. They came with extensive books, cloth maps, and funny little props or gizmos that really enriched the game play (sometimes you couldn't finish the Infocom games without a clue from the contents of the box).
Lie with passion and be forever damned...
Well with the Infocom games it always did feel as if I was missing something.. some direction, or some clue.. even just something setting the atmosphere.
Considering they were also made as DOS games, I think I'd play them on a PC today though, rather than trying to play them on my 64..
Bard's tale - must look out for that on Ebay..
Considering they were also made as DOS games, I think I'd play them on a PC today though, rather than trying to play them on my 64..
Bard's tale - must look out for that on Ebay..
3^4 is 81.0000001
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Doppleganger
- Vic 20 Dabbler
- Posts: 77
- Joined: Tue May 08, 2007 2:12 pm
- Website: http://www.doppleganger.org
- Location: Phelps, NY
- Occupation: Deskside Geek
Most of my collection is pirated, but there are 50-70 original games that I do have... I don't think I bought all of them, maybe about 15-20 or so, but there were some games I played for days or weeks on end, and others I didnt. I remember playing Maniac Mansion and Zac McKracken a LOT. I also played the Accolade driving games (Test Drive, TD 2, Grand Prix Circuit) quite a LOT, though I did buy TD2 and GPC.
Oh BTW, the first test drive is absolutely AMAZING at 20MHz
Oh BTW, the first test drive is absolutely AMAZING at 20MHz
-Jay
Vic-20 User Since 1982'ish.
Vic-20 User Since 1982'ish.
I haven't played E.T. on the 2600 more than a quick test in the emulator. But I don't think it is such a crap game as people tend to make it. Extremely rushed and confused gameplay certainly, but with four weeks of development time before packaging and distribution, perhaps you couldn't ask for more. I can see why Atari wanted the game available for Christmas sales, but if they had played cool and waited for a February release the game might've been quite a bit better and playable?
Anders Carlsson
Actually, yeah, E.T. isn't one of the games I think of when I mention crap games on the 2600, but I know a lot of people strongly dislike it, and it's blamed for all sorts of things.
I've got nearly 250 titles for the 2600 now, and if I had to throw out half of my carts based on how much I enjoy playing them (rather than value), E.T. would be a keeper. Searching for the pieces of E.T.'s phone is reasonably fun, it has pretty good graphics compared to its peers, there are a variety of "NPCs" each with their own purposes and goals, and it's neat how it's a persistent world where each character and item have world co-ordinates, rather than just being tied to individual screens like most games of that time were. Getting out of the pits can be annoying, but once you figure out how to do that, there's some fun to be had, all IMO of course.
I've got nearly 250 titles for the 2600 now, and if I had to throw out half of my carts based on how much I enjoy playing them (rather than value), E.T. would be a keeper. Searching for the pieces of E.T.'s phone is reasonably fun, it has pretty good graphics compared to its peers, there are a variety of "NPCs" each with their own purposes and goals, and it's neat how it's a persistent world where each character and item have world co-ordinates, rather than just being tied to individual screens like most games of that time were. Getting out of the pits can be annoying, but once you figure out how to do that, there's some fun to be had, all IMO of course.