New Additions to the retro computer line-up

[Centallica]

Well 2 new additions to the retro computer line-up:

Atari 1040 STf 1 MB Computer, mouse with PS 3000 monitor

Amiga A500 with 512kb upgrade, extra external 3.5" drive, mouse, joystick, some disks and 1084S monitor

Now just need a larger table to hold them more comfortably

More to learn and collect for

Anyone else into ATARI or AMIGA?
Brian

[ral-clan]

I am pretty much a dedicated Amiga user. I still use it for doing serious graphic art, desktop publishing and music composing/recording (although mine's a seriously upgraded Amiga 2000).

The Atari 1040 line was well regarded for its range of MIDI software.

I've never seen a monitor like that though! Does it indeed have a disk drive built into it?

I just googled the monitor, and apparently it does have a disk drive in it. That is strange, considering that the magnetic field a monitor generates is probably not the best thing for the disks.

PS: Dungeon Master is a pretty fun game.

[Centallica]

I am pretty much a dedicated Amiga user. I still use it for doing serious graphic art, desktop publishing and music composing/recording (although mine's a seriously upgraded Amiga 2000).

The Atari 1040 line was well regarded for its range of MIDI software.

I've never seen a monitor like that though! Does it indeed have a disk drive built into it?

I just googled the monitor, and apparently it does have a disk drive in it. That is strange, considering that the magnetic field a monitor generates is probably not the best thing for the disks.

PS: Dungeon Master is a pretty fun game.

The Atari PS3000 monitor does have the 3.5" disk drive in it and apparently this monitor was only sent to distributors for demo purposes and they only made 1000 of them (mine being #949). While not rare buy uncommon to see them around frequently.

The Amiga has the RAM add-on underneath and running 1.3 workbench. Because of this RAM add-on the seller says I have to use a special ANGUS BOOT DISK and when I try it, it just goes back to the main screen of the BOOT DISK. Not using the boot disk, it just stays on 1.3 logo and goes no where I guess the RAM add-on changes memory locations and needs the boot to adjust it to work with regular 512kb programs.

I would like to do a side by side comparison of the pair to see the strengths and weaknesses of both someday (when I figure out how to run them)

Brian

[MacbthPSW]

I was really into my Amiga 500 in the late 80s and early 90s. Nowadays I very rarely play with any of my Amigas (several 500s, a 1000 and 2000) since I have so much to do with my VICs and C-64s. I do want to spend more time with them again sometime in the future, but it'll have to wait.

As for the Atari ST vs. the Amiga, the ST is almost entirely a subset of the Amiga's abilities. It's a fine machine, but lacks most everything that made the Amiga so revolutionary.

[ral-clan]

Because of this RAM add-on the seller says I have to use a special ANGUS BOOT DISK and when I try it, it just goes back to the main screen of the BOOT DISK.

No offense to the seller, but it sounds like he/she doesn't have a clue what they are talking about. "Agnus" is a chip inside the Amiga, not part of the operating system.

Adding the extra 512K expansion in the trap door of the A500 should not give you problems. Almost every A500 was eventually expanded this way. This expansion does not change the memory locations like in a VIC-20 (remember, the Amiga is not at all related to the PET/CBM/VIC/C64 hardware - it's a totally different beast designed by an external group of researchers). The expansion should also not give you any problems with games, etc.

And yes, it was generally recognised that the A500 was superior to the Atari equivalent. In fact, Atari was helping the external research team to develop the Amiga line before Commodore (in a swift move) bought the whole design out from under them --- thus they had to start developing the ST line.

When you turn the A500 on (if it has a Kickstart 1.3 chip installed) you should see a picture of a hand holding a blue "Workbench" disk. You should also hear the built-in disk drive clicking (this is a sign it's working). This is your cue to insert either a bootable game disk, or the main disk of the Workbench 1.3 operating system.

Sounds like you either don't have any bootable game disks, or your disks have problems. Is there any disk activity when you insert the disk (i.e. do you see anything other than the boot screen)?

[carlsson]

I'm sure the disk drive is well shielded from the monitor. Remember a bunch of Macintosh as well as Compaq computers (and so on) were manufactured with computer + disk drive + CRT monitor in one unit, and if the disk drives would suffer from magnetic fields they would never have made so many of these systems.

By the way, the updated Atari STE lines, where E is an extended model with blitter and some other improvements, was marketed as an Amiga killer while in reality it put it on par with the strengths the Amiga already had. Of course the ST line has some other strengths like a MIDI interface, FAT compatible floppy drive format etc.

Robin: it took some people 10-15 years to come back to the VIC-20 (and in some cases the C64 too), so I'm sure by next decade, the early 16-bits such as Amiga and Atari ST will get a big revival as well... Start collecting software and books now, before those prices also skyrocket.

[MacbthPSW]

The expansion should also not give you any problems with games, etc.

This is generally true, but some early (poorly-programmed) games don't work properly with expansion RAM. If I'm remembering correctly, Road Raiders is like this, and it's one of my favourites. In at least some cases the problem had to do with the program assuming all ram was chip-ram (e.g. ram that the co-processors could directly access, like the first 512k on earlier Amigas).

[ral-clan]

The retro-computing craze for "classic" Amiga stuff has already started. Ebay prices for these items has gone through the roof in the past year. It seems to take about 20 years from the release of something before starts to become a nostalgia item.

1st year of release: compter/game/item is newest and greatest thing

10 years after: out of fashion/outdated/nobody wants it. Lots are thrown in the garbage or can be picked up for almost nothing.

20 years after release: as item becomes rarer & nostalgia kicks in, prices and desirability of item rises again.[/b]

[Jeff-20]

True, ral-clan.

I remember thinking NES stuff was just too common and unwanted, but that quickly changed. With your logic we should be scooping up all the playstation 1 stuff we can. The first playstation had equal if not greater impact on human culture as the NES.

Still, I think PS1 stuff will have the popularity of the first Gameboy for collectors. Backward compatibility kills nostalgia. No one is really fighting over first generation gameboy hardware.

[gklinger]

Backward compatibility kills nostalgia.

That's an interesting observation. I never really thought about it but you're right, backwards compatibility reduces the need or desire for the original hardware as that need or desire is usually driven by software. The 'generic factor' must also come into play which is why few people are going bonkers over the first generation IBM PC gear which, age-wise, should be of interest to collectors. I've noticed that people get a lot more money for the IBM PCjr than they do for the PC so clearly installed base is also a factor.

I can't help but wonder how emulation factors in...

[carlsson]

People do go bonkers over first-gen IBM PC, at least for a short while the past fall when all kinds of media celebrated 25 years of the PC. Around then, some people got the weirdest bids on their far-from-mint IBM 5150 PC's and even 5160 XT's announced on eBay.

If backward compatibility lessens collectibility, would it make all Atari 8-bit computers about equally sought after? I don't think that is the full truth. On the other hand, we should be glad that the Commodore 64 is only partitially compatible with the VIC-20, or else even few had bothered to remember the VIC.

[Tepic]

I am an Atari ST nut. It's my second favorite computer.

Atari wise I have a 520STFM, 520 STE, 1040STFM, Mega ST 1, and a Mega STE with 4mb and a 20MB HD

[carlsson]

Are you in a state to walk over dead bodies to get a Falcon, or are you content with the original ST/E series?

[Centallica]

No offense to the seller, but it sounds like he/she doesn't have a clue what they are talking about. "Agnus" is a chip inside the Amiga, not part of the operating system.

I think he was thinking that the Angus Chip gets altered with memory increase...not sure though?

Adding the extra 512K expansion in the trap door of the A500 should not give you problems. Almost every A500 was eventually expanded this way. This expansion does not change the memory locations like in a VIC-20 (remember, the Amiga is not at all related to the PET/CBM/VIC/C64 hardware - it's a totally different beast designed by an external group of researchers). The expansion should also not give you any problems with games, etc.

I think he was trying to say that this BOOT DISK which reads on the opening screen "The Surge of Paradox presents Turbo PAL/NTSC Boot Program. This will make your 1 MB ECS Angus Boot into either Pal or NTSC mode. Put the disk in and click left mouse for PAL or right mouse for NTSC." would make the necessary adjustment to the addition of memory.

And yes, it was generally recognised that the A500 was superior to the Atari equivalent. In fact, Atari was helping the external research team to develop the Amiga line before Commodore (in a swift move) bought the whole design out from under them --- thus they had to start developing the ST line.

I'm routing for the Amiga too to be superior to the ATARI ST, but will be interesting to learn the 2 systems with their weaknesses and strengths with History of Jack Tramel with ATARI etc...

When you turn the A500 on (if it has a Kickstart 1.3 chip installed) you should see a picture of a hand holding a blue "Workbench" disk. You should also hear the built-in disk drive clicking (this is a sign it's working). This is your cue to insert either a bootable game disk, or the main disk of the Workbench 1.3 operating system.

Yes, I tried the game Populous and it worked fine!! But 2 other disks "Amiga Extras and Amiga Basic" and "Workbench 1.3 Extras" wouldn't work when trying to load them

Sounds like you either don't have any bootable game disks, or your disks have problems. Is there any disk activity when you insert the disk (i.e. do you see anything other than the boot screen)?

The disk drive clicks and I only see the boot screen (picture of a hand holding a blue "Workbench" disk).

One thing so far I like the ATARI over the AMIGA is the ATARI goes right into the desktop OS without needing a BOOT DISK!! Guess I'll have to find a 1.3 version disk

Brian[/i]

[Centallica]

I am an Atari ST nut. It's my second favorite computer.

Atari wise I have a 520STFM, 520 STE, 1040STFM, Mega ST 1, and a Mega STE with 4mb and a 20MB HD

It appears to have quite the following on the internet too

How do you find transferring games from the internet onto the disks? Do you have to hook up a DD 3.5" drive and use any special program to do the transfer as I doubt the 3.5" HD drives we have would work?

Brian