Favourite VIC-20 adventure

orion70 · Post by **orion70** » Tue Aug 01, 2006 6:30 am

Looking at with my collection of VIC text adventures, I was wondering which one you old time VICers like the best.

Here's the poll (it will end in one month), so that I know which one to play first

Please note: text adventures only. If you choose "other(s)", specify the title.

Thanks!

carlsson · Post by **carlsson** » Tue Aug 01, 2006 10:30 am

Pirate's Cove is the only one I've seriously tried to play in the last 10 years. I remember in the 80'ties, there were tons of text adventures passing by, many probably no longer archived. Most of those required +16K or even more memory (24K?) so I never got a chance to try them.

GreyGhost · Post by **GreyGhost** » Tue Aug 01, 2006 2:51 pm

Same here, but with Voodoo Castle.

orion70 · Post by **orion70** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 1:46 am

I remember in the 80'ties, there were tons of text adventures passing by, many probably no longer archived. Most of those required +16K or even more memory (24K?) so I never got a chance to try them

This is interesting, indeed. Is there anyone in this forum having one or more adventures not listed in the VICventures site ( http://it.geocities.com/victextventures/ )?

It would be great if we could fill the gap, which seems to be huge, compared to arcade games, the vast majority of which is already available in the Internet!

More: is there any text adventure written in languages other than English?

Thomas Hechelhammer · Post by **Thomas Hechelhammer** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 2:08 am

orion70 wrote:
More: is there any text adventure written in languages other than English?

The curse of the pharao "Der Fluch des Pharao", in German.

Published by Wicosoft 1983.

BTW, I don't like the Commodore-Adventures at all, they seemed to me being nearly unplayable.

-- Thomas

orion70 · Post by **orion70** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 3:26 am

The curse of the pharao "Der Fluch des Pharao", in German.

Great! But - you don't like C= adventures because of the limited parser or the scarce plot?

The best C64 adventures are text/graphic games and occupy almost all the RAM. Their parser is often complex and very rich for that time (see INGLISH for example).
Technically, I think that it would have been possible to write text-only adventures with extended vocabulary and complex grammar also for the expanded (16-24K) VIC, but I've never heard of software products coming qualitatevely close to The Hobbit or Sherlock.
Is there a reason for that? Consumer market not ready for adventures in the early 80s? Lack of dedicated programmers? Need for a lot of additional RAM, which was not so cheap back then?
Thanks guys for your answers.

Thomas Hechelhammer · Post by **Thomas Hechelhammer** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 5:32 am

I don't like the C= Adventures so much because of the parser.

You think about some ideas to solve the adventure, but all you try results in using the wrong syntax.

The good thing of adventures is that you are in a different world, that's really fascinating.

But moving back and forth and all you try doesn't help anything is too boring.

Unfortunately, my english is a bit limited.

I've tried the CBM-adventures, O'Hares-Adventures and the stoneville manor worked for me the best.

-- Thomas

orion70 · Post by **orion70** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 7:09 am

I don't like the C= Adventures so much because of the parser.

Playing some adventures, I had the very same impression. I wonder why they didn't manage to work on a better parser (see my previous reply).

Unfortunately, my english is a bit limited.

Mine too - still, I guess our English is better than most parsers

carlsson · Post by **carlsson** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 8:57 am

I'm quite sure there were some VIC adventures in other languages, but I don't know one off-hand. At least not commercially available, home made is another matter.

To me, the limited text resolution is a problem with text adventures. The default 22 columns x 23 rows makes it hard to fit long, detailed descriptions. If one loads a software 40 column program, it gets better but the letters look more ugly. Those Scott Adams adventures published by Commodore(1) were amazing to be made fit into that resolution.

(1) Were Commodore the only company to implement and themselves sell (redistribute) adventures from Adventure International?

carlsson · Post by **carlsson** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 9:02 am

I don't remember the titles of the forgotten adventures, but I'm almost sure there was a VIC-20 version of Quest of Merravid, which is kind of confirmed by this site:

http://www.thelegacy.de/Museum/1097/

Now, if anyone can sponsor me a time machine and go 20-22 years back in time, I can tell you more (and buy a ten pack of Ultima: EMD at the same time

)

orion70 · Post by **orion70** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 9:30 am

Here's another list of VIC adventures:
http://www.if-legends.org/~adventure/ma ... IC-20.html

Googling around, I found this site selling Quest of Merravid for £ 12 plus P&P (less than a time machine!):
http://www.retrogames.co.uk/stock/html/vic_20.html
Is this a good adventure (worth 20 euros)?

Talking about video limitations:

To me, the limited text resolution is a problem with text adventures. The default 22 columns x 23 rows makes it hard to fit long, detailed descriptions.

This is definitely true! I forgot to add this drawback to the list (bad parser, expensive additional RAM, market not ready, etc.)

carlsson · Post by **carlsson** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 5:29 pm

Dunno what it is worth; I think you could find a downloadable copy of at least the C64 version if you want to play-test.

Someone should compare the binaries from two or more of the Scott Adams' adventures and see if the engine is reuseable. I wrote this before, but I don't have the incentive to do it yet. If so, it might be possible to reverse-engineer the data format and use it to create new adventures using the same engine, if it is a good one. I suppose implementing a Z-machine on the VIC-20 might be a bit of a difficult task, even though those exit on C64, Oric Atmos and ZX Spectrum (and many other old computers as Infocom ZIP).

http://www.ifarchive.org/indexes/if-arc ... tfree.html

There is asfd, "Another ScottFree Driver" with C source. It plays Scott Adams' adventures in the VIC-20 data format. Could be something to start with. Furthermore, elsewhere on that site there is a Commodore Basic listing (!) of Adventureland from 1979. I'm not sure if the adventure is identical to the later version issued on cartridge, but if so it might be useful to compare structure.

Hmm.. the adventures can also be downloaded in pure ScottFree interpreter format. The data files are: Adventureland 15896 bytes, Pirate's Cove 16325, Mission Impossible 15275, Voodoo Castle 15852 and The Count 17476 bytes. Apperently the data format used on the VIC-20 cartridges must be more compact (compressed?) or the adventures are not the full versions as distributed on other formats. Anyone knows?

ral-clan · Post by **ral-clan** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 6:57 pm

I just came across a text-adventure for VIC called SWORD OF HRAKEL. It is a 16K game I think.

There also is a 3K text adventure simply called "Dungeon" or "D&D". It's not bad for a 3K game. I think it was the first one I ever played on the VIC.

I agree that the 22-column screen was a bit of a problem with text adventures for the VIC. Also, bad choice of text colour on a white background could also be a problem.

I have a 40/80 column display board. I should try playing some text adventures on that.

A few years ago I made a point to play all the Scott Adams games (and finish them). A couple were quite fun. It's only been about 7 years but I've totally forgotten all the game plots and could play them all over again!

The two things I dislike in text-adventures: mazes (almost always frustrating and pointless) and poor parsers. There have been several times I KNEW how to solve a puzzle but could do it because the game designer used an obscure word in the parser (i.e. "gesticulate wand" instead of simply "wave wand").

orion70 · Post by **orion70** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 2:06 am

Dunno what it is worth; I think you could find a downloadable copy of at least the C64 version if you want to play-test.

I certainly will! If I find it interesting, I will buy and .tap it

If so, it might be possible to reverse-engineer the data format and use it to create new adventures using the same engine, if it is a good one.

This would be just GREAT. Imagine how many new adventures we could create and play! C'mon you VIC software wizards... Rev-eng it, please.

ral-clan: you may dislike them, but mazes are a constant in all 'historical' adventures on all platforms... and - if they're well designed - being lost in a dense forest or in a dark cave can add spice to the whole thing!

orion70 · Post by **orion70** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 6:41 am

(1) Were Commodore the only company to implement and themselves sell (redistribute) adventures from Adventure International?

carlsson: the entry "Adventure Land Adventure" in Cartzilla says:
"Trivia
While the folks at "Scott Adams / Adventure International" should get their fair due for writing the stories and such (on the Vic and other computers), Andy Finkel was responsible for doing the actual programming on the Vic20 versions of the Scott Adams games. Neil Harris was quoted in an online interview, saying that Mr. Finkel had to trim 1/3 the memory out (24k to 16k) of the Vic20 versions to fit them on a cartridge at all. Quite a feat, really."

As Andy was working exclusively for Commodore, I think that the versions for C64 and VIC were adapted and redistributed only by C=.
Looks like the other versions were directly distributed by Adventure International itself; see
http://www.if-legends.org/~adventure/Ad ... entureland
(cover on the right).

Also, note that three names were slightly changed in Commodore versions (Adventureland > Adventure Land, Pirate Adventure> Pirate's Cove, Secret Mission > Mission Impossible).

Denial

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