Atari XE: Is it a console or a computer?

[Jeff-20]

I don't think the distinction matters much, but I am wondering how each of you rationalize your categorization. The Atari XE has a keyboard, but it's detachable and unnecessary to boot a game, so I am leaning toward console. Yet it plays computer software, has a disk drive expansion port, and a KEYBOARD!

[Mike]

Voted computer. The detachable keyboard was rather irrelevant for my decision: you also had that with the C128 and could make that one auto-boot as well. IMO, consoles do not put the focus on being programmable by the user. Games mostly come around on media that are specific to the console (especially when sold as cartridge). So there ...

[Noizer]

At first glance, I can go for computers, what else?
BTW, as a small hint, I would always post a user friendly link, so others can look too.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atari_8 ... #XE_series

[Jeff-20]

Interesting. I guess I should also post the proper name is "Atari XE Game System".



And this was a time when many computers were marketed as game consoles. And, I suppose, game consoles were also attempting to market themselves as computers.



APF MP-1000 / Imagination Machine, Atari 2600 / Spectravideo Compumate, Astrocade, Intellivision, all the way to Playstation 2 had keyboards! I still consider them all consoles.



Yet the Coleco Adam is firmly a computer to me.



I know it's silly, but it bugs me when people call the Vectrex a portable. It needs to be plugged into the wall! It's a console to me.



How would the VTech Creativision be categorized??? Programmable with mostly tape based games not unlike a VIC 20.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VTech_CreatiVision

[Vic20-Ian]

I voted console as the 65XE it is based upon existed before it and this was really a cash grab for console market with option to be a computer, more so than the C64GS with no keyboard plug in option.

Technically it is both, as I understand it was sold as both.

"Atari XE Game System (1987) As the last gasp of the Atari 8-bit computer series, the XE Game system was essentially an Atari 65XE repackaged in a new case with a detachable keyboard so it could be sold in two configurations: as a computer, with the keyboard; and as a lower-cost game console without the keyboard."

You could argue that if it was sold with an OS and programmable out of the box it is a computer and if not it was a console expandable to a computer later.

Atari VCS was a console with 3rd party addon Computer keyboard / cartridge. VCS was not a computer in itself but a cleaver addon made it possible.

The Adam came in 2 variants. Standalone Computer system and as a Colecovision addon but mainly Adam would be a computer in my view and Colecovision with Expansion 3 would be a console first expanded to a computer.

Edit - let's not get into the fact Adam has no Basic / OS loaded and starts out as a Typewriter / Word Processor until basic is loaded.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wytTZV3BXWk

Vectrex is a luggable. Vectrex is to Portable Game as the Osbourne 1 is to laptop

[Jeff-20]

We need a new "luggable" category!

I think the Virtual Boy and Oculus Rift create a new category as well.

You could argue that if it was sold with an OS and programmable out of the box it is a computer and if not it was a console expandable to a computer later.

So the VTech Creativision is a computer to you?

I'm also curious about the connection between the Creativision and the Bentley Compuvision.

[Vic20-Ian]

So the VTech Creativision is a computer to you?

"The CreatiVision console sported an 8-bit Rockwell 6502 CPU at a speed of 2 MHz, 1KB of RAM and 16KB of Video RAM, and had a graphics resolution of 256 × 192 with 16 colors and 32 sprites. The console had two integrated joystick/membrane keypad controllers (much like the ColecoVision and Atari 5200) which, when set in a special compartment on top of the console, could be used as a computer keyboard. The CreatiVision had interfaces for a cassette player, an extra rubber keyboard, parallel I/O interface, floppy disk drive and modem (likely unreleased) and one memory expansion module for use with the Basic language cartridge. Any Centronics-compatible printer could be connected to the I/O module if present."

Was Basic included or an addon cartridge? The spec is pretty interesting.

I am not familiar with it enough to decide tonight but it sounds like a C16 competitor.

I will look into it. Thanks for the interesting prompt Jeff.

[Jeff-20]

Good point, Ian. So you know I have to make this more difficult for you: I am pretty sure there was an Atari VCS package that came with those two little keyboard controllers and the BASIC Programming cart. AND the name "Video Computer System" is in the title on the box (with or without the cart). These colloquial labels are so tricky.

[Vic20-Ian]

Hi Jeff,

Is it this (images below)?

I never saw this packaged in with the system in the UK. I think this would still be a console with a Kludgy addon to make it a programmable pseudo computer.

VCS is a console first with addon programming later despite the name.

I might class VCS Basic Programming as a similar offering to the Spectravideo Compumate, I had a Compumate until recently. I liked the way the character blocks were redefined to make keywords appear e.g. Run and Goto appears one small square.

Compumate had the ability to load and save to tape. Did the VCS version do this? Now we are adding offline storage as a criterion

This makes the VCS Basic Programming seem more like a game / simulation of programming a computer.






Ebay listing showing contents

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Atari-2600-B ... SwPktf1QJ6

The cartridge is even labelled as Game Program and the Keyboard controllers are the same as those for Star Raiders...the cynicin me would say there was some stock left

Demonstration of how good it was. Programmable but no offline storage.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhAj0XXuxVU

[Vic20-Ian]

Jeff, Creativision...is this better than the Vic20?

1981 release was surprising to me. I will have to try this out in MAME.

Sprites in Basic, 16k, Joysticks, replaceable keyboard, tape storage, Basic on cartridge. This one Qualifies as a computer for me.

Sprites in Basic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIDRjJEQNb0

Pacman type game - nice graphics and sound
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1D4jAyo0q4

Nice Homebrew - great player sprite, nicer than many C64 Sprites
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQC2iFDDtcE

Looks to be a very nicely thought out machine.

[Jeff-20]

Jeff, Creativision...is this better than the Vic20?

1981 release was surprising to me. I will have to try this out in MAME.

Nothing is better than a VIC 20.

I still have to get a copy of MAME running. I would love to mess around with the MESS parts.

[malcontent]

So the VTech Creativision is a computer to you?

"The CreatiVision console sported an 8-bit Rockwell 6502 CPU at a speed of 2 MHz, 1KB of RAM and 16KB of Video RAM, and had a graphics resolution of 256 × 192 with 16 colors and 32 sprites. The console had two integrated joystick/membrane keypad controllers (much like the ColecoVision and Atari 5200) which, when set in a special compartment on top of the console, could be used as a computer keyboard. The CreatiVision had interfaces for a cassette player, an extra rubber keyboard, parallel I/O interface, floppy disk drive and modem (likely unreleased) and one memory expansion module for use with the Basic language cartridge. Any Centronics-compatible printer could be connected to the I/O module if present."

Was Basic included or an addon cartridge? The spec is pretty interesting.

I am not familiar with it enough to decide tonight but it sounds like a C16 competitor.

I will look into it. Thanks for the interesting prompt Jeff.

Wow what a neat little machine, here's Ausretrogamer's article about it. https://ausretrogamer.com/retrospective ... s-wizzard/

I don't know much about Australian dollars in the 80s but $300 seems like a competitive price, but yeah that lacks BASIC, RAM, and a tape drive. The tape drive was $89 according to them. So you'd need to spend some money to get it to "computer mode". Also shame about the library of only 16 cartridges, one of whic is BASIC.